Rocio I

Rocio I

Female, Age 56

Came to US at 29 on a tourist visa 

Mexican high school graduate; US occupation: housekeeper 

Issued voluntary departure from the US at 46; detained after her US boyfriend’s parents filed a fabricated criminal complaint against her

Left behind: 2 children

Mexican occupation: unemployed

Mexico City, Mexico

Rocio I

October 18, 2018

Interviewer: So tell me about when you first went to the United States. What was it like?

Rocio: Well it was 1991. I wasn’t working here and I had a friend that came from Hawaii and asked me if I want to go for a vacation. And I said yes and I arrived to Palm Springs. Beautiful place. I just love it. And immediately he asked me if I want to get a job because across our apartment they were asking for people who want to work in a hotel. And I went to apply and they gave me the job.

Rocio: In a month I already rent my own studio. I get my furniture. So I was all set up in a month—and of course I compare the payment here in Mexico over there—and I just stay, I mean without thinking, without planning, I just stayed. After a year I came back because I wasn’t sure if I’m going to stay or not in the USA. And I started working again here and when I was in the job, someone opened my purse and stole my wallet and I arrived to work and I just saw it and I was like, “No, I don’t like this anymore so I’m going to come back to Palm Springs.” And I did. And I stayed for 18 years.

Interviewer: And that second time when you went back, did you go on a tourist visa as well?

Rocio: Yes, yes.

Interviewer: So both times?

Rocio: Yes.

Interviewer: So you said almost immediately you were offered a job. What kind of job was it in the hotel?

Rocio: I was cleaning rooms. Something very different of course, because I work here in an office and it was hard for me. But really it was the difference in the salaries, that just made the difference you know. To have my studio in a month and furniture and everything I hear is hard to do that. So, and then I was by myself. I wasn’t married, I didn’t have kids, I didn’t even plan it, but I stay.

Interviewer: And did you feel accepted or did it take time to feel accepted in the community?

Rocio: No, immediately, I always love the language. I studied English at my school here and I immediately loved it. I just love America and no, it was very good for me in Palm Springs. Everybody, it was Filipino people, a lot of Mexicans. And it was welcome. I was very welcome.

Interviewer: That’s nice. Was it, so you got a job, did you have employment papers or how did that work?

Rocio: No, we went to LA to buy a social security card. So I always, for 18 years, I worked with that social security.

Interviewer: And did you pay taxes?

Rocio: And I pay taxes. And after that, I work in hotels, in restaurants. In 95, I get married and I have a baby daughter, Karen, and I stay for three more years in hotels. And after I separated from my husband, I begin to work in private residence. Of course, they never asked me for papers, but I still paying my taxes, always I pay taxes. I helped the Palm Springs police for charities and everything. And my daughter have a problem with her heart. She have a murmur?

Interviewer: Your daughter?

Rocio: Yes. And I have the best doctors, I have her Medical. So, I start paying a charity for St. John’s hospital for kids because I have the same problem. Thank God, she’s okay. And, of course, these people start paying me more money because they were rich people. Because Palm Springs is in summer it’s so hot, they go away for three, four months. So I take care of their residence. And I mean, United States for me, was very good. Very good because I always was welcome. Always have a job.

Rocio: After 13 years, I have another kid, Chris, my son. I didn’t get married, I have been by myself. And then I start working for these people—the last persons that I worked for. And my boss brings a friend from Michigan, and we start dating since the beginning. And his family, he just told me they don’t like Mexicans. So after four years—

Interviewer: Of dating?

Rocio: Dating, they just call immigration and my nightmare starts and my life just was over, because I lost everything. Thank God my kids weren’t with me that day. My daughter was with her dad and my son was with a friend of mine. So they took me just by myself. But that’s when everything started. I didn’t come to Mexico for 18 years. So it was just a nightmare. That’s when everything started.

Interviewer: Do you still have contact with that man?

Rocio: No.

Interviewer: Did he?

Rocio: No, he never called me. He never answered me again or anything. So I don’t know if he had something to do with it or not or I don’t know. I don’t even want to because, I mean if I was by myself, okay. But it was my family. Even though I rent or everything, I have a very good apartment and all my furniture, my car—I was paying my car.

Interviewer: Could you get a license in California?

Rocio: Yes, I had a good one. But after 10 years here in Mexico, they changed the visa for 10 years. Every 10 years you need to change it.

Interviewer: Right.

Rocio: And that’s when I started having problems because I didn’t change the visa and so I lost my license, even though I was able to buy cars, to rent apartments and I never have a problem with that.

Interviewer: And you get credit cards and—

Rocio: No credit card. No, it’s just a bank account, but not credit cards.

Interviewer: And your children grew up as Americans?

Rocio: Yes. Yes. My daughter speaks English because I teach her at the beginning. And at school, she started speaking English. My son never want to speak Spanish. Since I start talking to him in Spanish and he never wanted it. So when I bring him, after a year that I came here, I took him, I tried to keep him with me, but it was hard because I get a job. So very early in the morning, I take him with my aunt and I pick him up at night in pajamas already. So it was crazy for me.

Interviewer: Here in Mexico?

Rocio: Here in Mexico. I took him to schools to see if I can register him.

Interviewer: And he was how old?

Rocio: He was three years old, almost three. And he don’t speak Spanish or they don’t let me, they just don’t take him. So, it was like two months after I bring him, that my friend called me and told me, “We need to think, he have everything here, you know, he’s an American citizen. What are you going to do over there with him? You don’t have a place. You live with your mom.”

Rocio: So that’s when I need to make that decision to let him go, with my friend. She’s everything to me. Of course, she’s very, very—a great family. She just have a son. So, she signed it like a tutor [inquisitive] to keep him until I was able to come back. Because at the beginning I was fighting to go back and talking with everybody, but they told me, you have 10 years and you need to stay over there. So it was extremely hard for me to make that decision, but it’s not for me. It’s his life. He has everything over there. And I’m not going to take that away from him.

Rocio: And my daughter was 13 and of course she was in middle school and I told her, “No, you need to stay over there and finish your school. You have your dad.” Of course, after three or four years, she began to not behave, you know, and she didn’t finish high school. She just finished second. She just left one year, but she didn’t finish and she started having problems with behavior, living with friends, and I didn’t know anything. Her dad can’t control her. So it was very hard for me. Very, very hard for me. Even though my son started peeing the bed for two or three years, my friend needs to take him to a psychologist. Saturday he turns 12, but he’s 12 years old. We talked with him and try to explain to him, but he really don’t understand why I cannot cross the border. Why he cannot come over here because it’s hard for him to cross without me. And of course he’s still having problems sometimes with behavior or gain weight or lose weight or depression.

Rocio: Of course, everything is a disaster. I was two years in bed with depression. My first two years, I just don’t want to live. So, thanks to my family, help me and said, “Your kids needs you. You can’t just die in bed.” So I went to see psychiatrist, and they give me medication and I stayed on medication. And so, after I don’t know, like five years or six years of being here, I start like, “Okay, I need to get involved in this, what I can do to help people and help myself.” You know? Just start doing what I’m going to do, it’s six years already.

Rocio: Of course, I went to see a lot of lawyers. They took all my money, thousand dollars every time. Everybody telling me they going to help me to go back. And of course until I say okay, no more paying to lawyers or anything. And I met Y. V., the one who wants to create more DREAMer moms, by Facebook and she asked me to represent moms here in Mexico. And I said, “Okay, but I just opened a Facebook page and everybody are in United States.” So, I was like, “No, I need to meet people here.” But in Mexico, I haven’t met anybody, just one, A. L. L., and she’s helping a lot people that came here—she waits for them in the airport and help them if they don’t have place to stay or a job, or anything. But she lives so far from me, so we met once but we can’t even talk, you know to do something together yet. And they introduced me to G.—I don’t know the last name. The movie director. Do you know it?

Interviewer: No.

Rocio: They introduced me to her and she’s working in Relaciones exteriores here in the government. So she told me once that I need to contact her because I’m going to be already 10 years here and she can help me to start to see what I can have. If I can have a visa to go just for visit or if my daughter can ask for me because she’s 22 already. Or start something to do, what I’m going to do… and to get my son’s passport.

Interviewer: So he can visit you?

Rocio: So he can come visit me. And the situation here that has been so difficult for me. That is just unbelievable that even in the United States without papers, I was able to get my car, to rent apartments and here in Mexico I can’t. They asked me for a lot of papers and it’s just the doors close for me here all the time. And because my age. I just been working—in nine years, I just got three jobs. And last year I broke a bone in my back. So I stay a year in bed. After that, I’d been looking for a job for a year and I’m not able to get a job because my age, so it’s just a nightmare. And so I’ve been trying to get more involved in these situations, to see if we can get together, the people that we go through this and help each other because it’s just crazy.

Rocio: I mean you get in internet to get a job and it’s just until you’re 35 years old. So what would you want to do here? I mean, I speak enough English to work in an office and they tell me no because my age. So it’s been hard all this time, even though my friend said, “Well you have already nine years here.” I said, “For me it’s been like nine hours.” I mean it’s been very difficult and go through everything. My kids is the worst part.

Interviewer: And is your daughter, does she still live in Palm Springs?

Rocio: She live in Palm Springs. She get a Mexican boyfriend and he don’t have papers. So, she’s helping him to get papers to go with her to the United States because she got—

Interviewer: Is she back in Mexico?

Rocio: She’s in North of Mexico, Sonora. She crossed the border and everything and the baby born in USA, praise God. But she’s helping him and I can’t see her because I don’t have the money to bring her. Do you know the flights and everything? I mean, I have very much contact with her and with my boy. With him I talk—of course he don’t have Facebook or anything—every 15 days and with my daughter every time she’s on Facebook we talk. But she have a baby and I haven’t meet him. He’s going to be already two years old. So I don’t know, it’s just a nightmare.

Interviewer: Like a nightmare?

Rocio: And for everybody in my family needs to help me. I feel like I’m 15 years old because they pay my rent. So it’s just everything is—I tried to kill myself two years ago when I broke my back and they told me I need to be in bed for a year because I can’t have surgery. So it was like, I can’t do this anymore. You know, it’s just, I can’t, but it wasn’t my time. I hurt myself in every way you can imagine. And at night, it was time. I didn’t do it. I can’t do it. So I started going to the psychiatrist again, and everything is money, so it’s just, I don’t know when this is going to end you know?

Interviewer: Well hopefully, at least when the 10 years are up, you’ll be able to find some way. It’s temporary.

Rocio: Yeah, I hope so. I hope so too. I don’t even know, just do think if I can go back and stay or I just want to for the moment, I just want to go and be able to cross the border to see my kid every time I’m able to. And of course I want to stay because the situation here with the jobs is just crazy and I just can’t.

Interviewer: You have such good English, it’s really too bad—

Rocio: Yes!

Interviewer: That people don’t take advantage of that.

Rocio: So I’m just starting to get more strength to help people because you know, hearing the stories and everything—my stories all the time here in my mind. I’m starting to like it because I love to help people you know? And I start when the situation with the DACA start in United States, I was like, “This is not fair, this can’t be happening.” I have thousands of friends in United States that took their kids very young, one, two years old. And the future was going to be for them, you know? And if they took the kids, the parent stay or if they took the parent back, what would the kids going to do in the United States? My kids were so lucky to have my daughter, her father, and my son, my friend. But even though that’s illegal because they just have a paper, we haven’t been able to do nothing really legal because it’s too expensive.

Interviewer: Right.

Rocio: And my friend wants to adopt my kid and I’m not ready to do that either. I’m not going to take my son away from her because she’s been so nice, but I’m not going to sign that you know [laughs]? So I mean, it’s just a nightmare for everybody. It’s just not right. We don’t go to steal nobody’s jobs. We go to have a better life. That’s it. And we are very hardworking people. So I don’t know what’s going to happen.

Interviewer: When you think back about your time, what were your favorite things about the U.S.?

Rocio: Oh. Everything. I mean for me it was a very good time. I had very good jobs. I have time to be with my kids a lot because I worked nine to four, so I have all afternoon with my kids. I was able go to the beach. As you know, Palm Springs is very close to the beach, the snow, and mountains. So I love the USA. I just love that place. So I hope—I mean it’s not going to be the same of course, but it’s different. I just always love to be there.

Interviewer: Do you think living there changed you?

Rocio: Yes. In a good way. Very good way. Yes.

Interviewer: Tell me how.

Rocio: You know I was more involved with the community. Here? Never—just my friends said that’s it. Over there they teach me how to be involved with the community. Like with the police community when they did in the park, events. And I always were there. Here, Mexico, it’s not like that. And I like that a lot. And respect for the community, the way we drive over there. Here in Mexico is just crazy. When I used to drive, everybody was telling me what are you doing? Do you need to stop? You need to drive carefully. And I just get it immediately. I liked that respect for others. I just click with everything. I just love it. 

Rocio: And gives me the opportunity to have the best doctors for my kids and that you have schools that you don’t need pay much. When that happened to me, I thought to bring my daughter and I don’t know, going to be able to pay your school and I’m not going to put her in a public school here because the difference is going to be too much for her. So I decided to leave her over there. So everything, I like everything.

Interviewer: And you said your son has been having difficulties, emotional problems?

Rocio: Yes. Emotional problems. I, of course, keep in touch with my friend and she’s like, well this week he was in a fight at school. He eats when he is upset or nervous. Sometimes for a month or two he’s okay and they talk to him a lot. She’s like his behavior at school sometimes is—I don’t know because he have dark hair. Or I told her you ought to be careful with bullying, maybe it’s that and she’s not that very involved with him at school and everything. But sometimes, like right now, it’s getting better. But when he’s nervous …he gets in middle school already and he told my friend I’m very afraid to go to school. So he begins to eat and eat and right now he is very big. But we talked to him a lot so I don’t know what’s going to happen. It’s still problems with—

Rocio: And my daughter never forgive me. She all the time… I tried to tell her to know what to do with the baby or something and she said like, “Why you left me? So what you going to tell me about it?” And I say, “Karen you’re 22 you need to understand.” And she is like, “No, you never, why’d you sign it for you to leave?” I mean she’s very upset with me too, I don’t know.

Interviewer: You can’t win. You said that one of your children, your daughter, had a heart murmur.

Rocio: Yes.

Interviewer: Did you have health insurance? How did you pay for the medical procedures?

Rocio: I had regular medical, like everybody and I pay like $10 a month and they give me the best doctors. And when my son…

Interviewer: Was that through the government?

Rocio: Yes. And my son too, he have a major surgery because when he born his penis was inside.

Interviewer: Oh yeah.

Rocio: So his urine conduct was stuck. So they needed a major surgery and I didn’t pay anything. I paid with my medical and they sent me to the best doctors and he’s okay. So for me, that’s why I’m so grateful for USA, I love USA. So when this happened I was like, “Why?” I mean, I understand that not all the people that was to go to USA is going to be able because everyone wants to go over there. But I mean if we are working, we are paying taxes—they don’t give taxes back. Just if you have kids, they give you $1,000 a year or something, but they don’t give you more. And you still paying taxes. I mean the people we are without, even driving ticket or anything why they don’t let us stay? Or like this family, they took my life away without knowing what they doing. It was easy for them to call immigration without thinking.

Interviewer: When they made claims about, well obviously you were undocumented, but they made claims also that you had engaged in a criminal acts as well?

Rocio: They needed to call the police first. They can call the immigration first. So they called the local police and they say that I was robbing his home. And they have a fingerprints and I was like, “Yeah, sure. I was over there for four years or more.”

Interviewer: Oh you lived with him?

Rocio: No.

Interviewer: But you dated him. Yeah.

Rocio: I dated him. Yeah. So I mean the police man just told me you know that is not true. But they did their report because they want immigration to come to pick you up. They want you out of this. And they just did it.

Interviewer: And even though the police did not really agree or think it was a valid claim, they had no—

Rocio: They say I need to follow the report. And even the immigration guy, he stopped in the middle of the road and he told me, “Who did this to you?” I mean I told him my kids, my apartment, my car—because the police were arriving and I was in a towel because I was in the shower and they don’t let me dress, so he took me to the police car and we wait for an hour. I was in my towel and then immigration guy arrived and he told me, “What are you doing almost naked here?” And I said, “Well he don’t even let me get pants or something.” So he let me get in my house, get dressed and he told me, get your papers, your birth certificate for your kids and everything you think you’re going to need.

Rocio: So I was lucky that he went with me in my home and then just start driving and he parked and he say, “Who did this to you?” And I was like, “Please let me go!” And he said, “I can’t, I have the report and I need to arrive with you. But what you did or what is it?” I have my kids, I work, I paid taxes. He said “Sorry, I just can’t let you go.” So they took me out [pause].

Interviewer: So you left voluntarily, I mean it’s not really voluntary, but you signed the papers and you left and they deported you? Was there an option to fight it?

Rocio: I call, they tell me to call here to Relaciones exteriors (Mexican Consulate), to the government here. And I did call and they told me, “You just sign. Because if they take you to the judge and the judge deport you, you never going to come back.” So in the moment I was like, of course in shock, I was thinking about my kids. I was like what I need to do to don’t have more problems. Just sign, you need to sign, you don’t go to the judge because they going to deport you or they going to take your kids away and blah, blah, blah. So I just signed.

Interviewer: I’m so sorry. So sorry.

Rocio: Yes, it’s hard. I mean, I know my kids is thanks to my family and the people around me. It’s been not crazy like other peoples, other people it’s terrible. Anyway, if you have family, they destroyed your family. Even though I get back to my kids one day is not to be the same never.

Interviewer: They’re American citizens.  There’s no reason that the U.S. Government should be destroying their lives.

Rocio: Yeah. They are destroying an American citizen because they are suffering. And it’s just not fair. But I’m very glad that people like you are doing this because what I want is to be able to talk to more people, to know what this is about. And it’s just not because I went to United States because I don’t like Mexico or I come back and going to steal jobs because I speak English because it’s not that way. And the way we can help the people that go through these situations and go to the government and ask them—I’m here for nine years and I can’t get a job and I’m 55 or I need to support myself. I need to support my kids. I need to live. I’m Mexican and I am not able to do nothing if you’re in my country and it’s terrible. And that’s what I’m going to fight for now. Because if not, I don’t know if I’m going to survive or what am I going to do. My family is not going to be there forever.

Interviewer: Right.

Rocio: So it’s hard, difficult. But thank you very much for doing this.

Interviewer: Well, thank you so much. And I think you’re a very strong person and I think you’re going to, you know, in another year, hopefully you’ll see your family and find some way to reconcile all this in a positive way.

Rocio: Yes. And I think this is going to give me the strength to, if I go back and fight more and more for these situations. It’s terrible. We need to do something about it.

We spoke to Rocio again in 2022.

Part 1

Interviewer: So just to start, tell us a little bit about what has changed in the last three or so years since we talked to you?

Rocio: Here, since I arrived now, because you have all that.

Interviewer: Yeah. Either whatever.

Rocio: Well, I was working after a long time trying  to find a job because my age is very difficult here. So because the pandemic, I need to quit and go to live with my mom. And that was very difficult. Because I was renting by myself and then I just have two brothers, older brothers and both of them passed away. So it’s been very difficult. My daughter, I don’t know what I… She think and she’s have three kids and she’s in Sonora, Mexico. So she’s having a hard time, trying to have a family or I don’t understand her, why she’s here and not over there. And you know, she’s struggling too much here in Mexico.

So I’m, I’m kind of depressed right now because I’ve been talking with Hector, my boyfriend. We’ve been talking for two years already. And last year, he start telling me to try to… She could ask me as a fiance. So everything started. I lost my marriage license with my daughter’s father. So this association helped me to get it from California. And then I need to register my marriage here in Mexico. But in California, I don’t know why, but I give them for example, in DMB or when I get married, my birth certificate and my name is so long and they told me how you going to use your name? And I say, Rocio only. It’s all my papers over there are Rocio. So right now I want to start the divorce and Rocio is another person.

So I’ve been spending money trying to tell them that I’m the same person with papers from over there. My daughter’s birth certificate is with Rocio, my license over there, but they don’t want to. So this been for almost seven months and I’ve been paying, paid everything this morning and I just can’t do nothing. So I talk with Hector and he said, “Let me talk with a lawyer, divorce lawyer here and see if I can do it, send me the papers. And I do it here in United States.” Poor guy’s been paying everything because I’m not working. And then we need to, well, I talk with the immigration people and they say, “Yes, is faster if…” Because I say, “If he comes and marry me and ask me.” And they say, “No. It’s better if he ask you as a fiance and then you have 90 days to get married.”

Interviewer: Right.

Rocio: But it’s going to be like $7,000. So thanks God he have the money, but… And it’s going to take at least two years. So I’m trying to do the right things and here in Mexico, it’s so corrupted with everything. And I have a bunch of papers to let them know that I’m the same person and they don’t want to. So I’ve been dealing with that without having a job. And, and beside that, my son is having problems right now because he turns 15. And right now he’s trying to understand what happened. Because all the time my friend and I tell him that you have two families and I leave you over there because it’s better life for you. But he was too young. And right now he’s struggling with school, with friends, anger, he gained weight. He lost a lot of weight. He want to talk with me or not.

So he’s struggling a lot. And that gives me… I’m powerless. And so yes, for me here, everything is just chaotic. I don’t know. I was so lucky when I arrived over there to California. Since I arrive, I get an apartment, I get a job. I support my… I have my kids. I just was married for two years. I divorced and I support myself every time I was doing better. So it was pretty good for me, it was a dream. I don’t struggle with money. I don’t struggle with schools, with anything. My kids, if they have health problems, they have their insurance and I don’t need to pay anything. So I love that. I love the structure to be respectful, driving with the neighbors. I mean everything. And here it is just, I don’t know. I just can’t adapt. After 12 years or 13, I don’t know how I’m going to be. I feel just, that is not my place.

Interviewer: And do you think that there could have been something that would’ve made the transition easier? Or do you think that in your heart, you just feel like the US is your home?

Rocio: Yes. I just feel that because if I bring my kids since the beginning, I will be crazy. You know what I’m going to do with them? Karen, she speaks Spanish and English, but Chris haven’t, he speak only English. And I don’t like for them to live here. So, no, it’s just that I don’t like here. I don’t like my, my birthplace, but it’s just difficult. When I arrive and get my first job, I was like, “What is the salary and what I’m going to do with this?” And since then, since then I just have one or two jobs with a good salary work good that I can eat and pay rent for a room or something. But I can’t believe that it was easier for me without papers, having an apartment, always in a nice place. I get my car, I get a job and everything was so easy. If you follow the rules in the United States, everything is perfect. Even though I wasn’t legal and here is just now I don’t like it.

Interviewer: And Karen’s your daughter? Yes. And so she’s currently living in Mexico?

Rocio: Yes.

Interviewer: Have you tried to talk her out of that or have you been talking to her about your experiences here?

Rocio: Oh, yesterday we talk and she wants to go back because every time… I mean, with three kids here and in the place she’s living, it’s just terrible. But I said, “It’s your life, you decide to have kids.” I mean, I’m helping her when I can. But she’s trying to do everything, to take her boyfriend that is Mexican over there, but it’s expensive. I don’t know what she going to do, but all the time we are in contact. And I help her as much as I can.

With Chris, I don’t need to help him monetarily, but we were talking a lot and right now he’s with the drink and having a bad time right now. So deal with that for me is I don’t talk with that with my family, because everybody said that it’s not my kid anymore. He’s living there with my friend. She’s the mom. And I said like, “What?” I mean, I’m going to be his mom all his life. So I just have one friend to talk about of all my situations and I’m taking care of my mom and she’s old and it’s very difficult. So yeah. Right now I’m not in a very good place.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Interviewer: Yeah. I’m sorry to hear that.

Rocio: But when I arrived from United States, I was almost a year in bad, very bad situation. So I’m just fighting with my head all day saying, “I’m okay. Everything’s going to be okay. I’m not going to be in that place again.” You know, I can fix it. So I’m trying to do my best and I can change everything.  I can fix everything. So I’m just dealing with everything right now.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Interviewer: Does taking care of your mom, is that influencing your decision of whether or not to go back? Did you worry about leaving her?

Rocio: No. No. She knows that I want to go back. I mean, since when… And her brother, thank God, they had very good jobs. So he’s paying for everything. And if I leave, they going to find someone to take care of her. But she knows that I want to go badly.

Interviewer: Would you ever go live with your daughter in Sonora?

Rocio: No. No. Sonora is very…  Which right now is so dangerous. She lives out of the cities, but then it’s harder because his boyfriend doesn’t find a good job. So yesterday she called me, “I want to go back.” Well, take it easy and make plans and everything. Just not going to go away and with what money, with three kids and he wants to go illegally. And I said like, “You got to think what you going to do, because it’s going to be worse.” If he cross illegally, you going to ask for him and it’s going to be terrible. So every time the telephone rings and his hair is like another problem, but that’s to have kids all the time. You want to fix everything. And sometimes you can.

Interviewer: Has she come to visit you here in Mexico City?

Rocio: No. Since I’m here, no. She came… I sent her when I was over there when my grandma lives, was alive. I sent her by herself like three times. And she came back all the time telling me that, “I don’t like the city. It’s just buildings and cars. And I don’t like it.” Because we live in Palm Springs, California it was so beautiful. Yeah. So she was like, “What is this place? It’s so crowdy.” And she didn’t like it, but she found a boyfriend in Mexico, that’s why she’s here. So like, “Oh Karen.”

Interviewer: And is your son still in Palm Springs?

Rocio: No, they moved to Florida.

Interviewer: Florida.

Rocio: And I’m having a little problems with my friend because politics, she supports Trump and I wasn’t. So talking on Facebook one day I put like, “I don’t like him at all.” And she starts fighting with me and I say like, “Chris…” She’s Christy. My son is Chris. And I say, “Christy, we can fight about these things.” And she unfollowed me on Facebook.

Interviewer: Oh.

Rocio: So I’m now talking with her husband, but meanwhile we were in Facebook, I know where he was. He was doing photos of my son. And right now I don’t know anything. So I said like “We are adults. We can fight about this.” I don’t need to tell you, “What is my son doing? Send me a picture.” I mean, so other thing that I’m dealing with.

Interviewer: So you mentioned you’ve stayed in touch with other friends from the US. How has that been?

Rocio: Yes. It was funny, not most of my friends from Palm Springs, but when I opened my Facebook here, I didn’t have one over there. It’s funny because I like a group, Pearl Jam group. And because that group, I start having very, very good friends and we made another group apart, not music group. And all of them are around United States and they are friends like every day, “What do you need? We can help you. How are you doing?” It’s a private group, so you can talk whatever you need. And it’s been like four years and every day is like, “We can help you or talk to us.” It is very, “When you come back, what we can do for you? When you going to…” They are all the time. Like, “Are you okay? When you come back?” And they’re very good friends. So it’s good that I have more friends over there than here too.

Interviewer: What was it like to try and start making friends or social connections here when you got back?

Rocio: Well, I connect my old friends only. To make other friends out of that just a few like Yolanda and dreamer moms, but not friends like talking every day or chatting. Not really, not… Job, in my job I did two or three friends, but not, not really like before that, “I’m going to see you. Let’s have a coffee or a drink or whatever.” I just have two friends, girlfriends that… I’m going to see one today.

Interviewer: Oh, good.

Rocio: But that’s it. I don’t have a social life. That’s why I’m all the time in the computer seeing how the weather it is in Houston and… Hector is in Houston.

Interviewer: Yeah. Tell us more about how you met him.

Rocio: I met him when we were… I was 14 and he was 24. We were a bunch of friends. We were like 30 from the same street.

Interviewer: Oh, wow.

Rocio: From the same colony or I don’t know how they call it. We travel, we camping, we go to the beach and that was for five, six years. And then everybody start getting married and you know, started doing their lives. And he said that he wants to be my boyfriend all the time, but I had a boyfriend at the time. And I introduced him a friend of mine in a party. And she was like, “I want to be with him.” And he said like, “No, I’m going to United States.” Because his dad was American. So he decides to go over there and she said, “You need to take me.”

And he was like, “Jesus. She wants to be with me. Okay.” He took her and they get married. But after three or five difficult years, they divorced. But I lost contact with him. I went to the United State and never, never because I didn’t have a Facebook. So I never reach him. And then he get married again, have two kids and divorced again. And since then he’s alone. And one day in Facebook, like three years ago, I saw his name and I was like, “It is you? And oh.” Since that, he’s like, “Oh, I told my kids, I have a girlfriend.” Oh, really. That you going to come here and say like, “Okay, let me start telling my story and then you decide what we got to do now.” He said, “Anything you want.” So he’s been super nice. He send me money every month.

I’m telling him that I’m paying the divorce lawyer here. And, “How much do you need?” As he send me. And he’s so nice. He haven’t come because he want to retire. And he’s so excited. I have a lot of plans. So right now I’m not going to spend some money because we are going to have a… He sent me photos in the lake. I’m going to buy this little house in the lake and we going to keep the house in Houston. And I’m like, “Really? Okay.” And we going to travel all around because… I said like, “Oh, that sounds good.” So he’s been my support right now. But even though I learn from experience that I don’t need to talk everything. I don’t tell him all the time, “I’m depressed. I don’t know how to do… I don’t go out. So everything is okay. I’m okay. I miss you.” And sometimes I tell him I’m getting stressed because I can’t fix this. And he is like, “Everything is going to work out and yeah.” Okay. “You going to fix it? Okay.” So he’s been my support right now.

Interviewer: Sounds great. And when you are feeling sort of overwhelmed, depressed, do you have someone that you feel like you can talk to?

Rocio: I have my friend. I’m taking anti-depressant. How do you say it?

Interviewer: Anti-depressant.

Rocio: Anti-depressant since I arrive because I was a year almost in bed and I was heavily medicated. Right now, I’m just taking one pill a day. But yes, I talk with my friends. One of, the one that I’m going to see today, is the only one to understand me badly. She went through something similar and so I can tell her whatever she don’t judge. She heard me, “What can I do for you? Just talk to me.” And that’s okay but nobody else, because you know, sometimes I talk with my family and they judge, so then I get more upset. So I just learn to be quiet and trying to deal with things.

Interviewer: What about the dreamer moms group? Is that more supportive or more about work?

Rocio: Well, a year ago I talked with Yolanda and I said like, “We need to do more things about how to help people. Be more involved.” But I have the dreamer moms in Mexico City, but most of them are in United States because they just keep adding because Yolanda. And I say like, “We need to meet more people here, but I don’t know how…” But just not talking. I want to help. I want to know if we have a group of lawyers that can give them advice and helping another more, just not talking. And Yolanda introduced me to IMUMI. IMUMI’s the association that helped me a lot, but they have tons of work. So that’s why I’m paying the lawyer because they say, “If we help you, it’s going to take like a year.” I said like, “I’m not 15 to wait a year for a divorce.”

Interviewer: Right.

Rocio: And two years for immigration. But it’s not working anyway. Yes. I want to talk with Yolanda and say that we need to change this because she’s doing the same as me. She is asking for… She got married and Hector is going to ask her. So she is busy right now too. And we haven’t do much in a group.

Interviewer: What are the things that right now you miss the most and the least about the US?

Rocio: Being with my kids, working… The daily life, I see my friends, even in the pandemic. They have beautiful places to go out and walk and see the lake. In Penn Springs, I have the beach two hours and one hour the other side, you can skate. I mean, go out. It’s not like here that I’m going to go out and walk and what, see the traffic and the buildings and a lot of crowded? So that’s what I miss the most that I can go out and breathe even by myself. I don’t like that. So I’ve been a lot in my house alone. And that’s very hard.

Interviewer: And try to… I’m sorry. Are there things that you don’t miss?

Rocio: No. Even though I was by… I mean, my family visit me not a lot, but my aunts, my cousins, my brothers… But no, I was by myself and I was so happy. I didn’t have too many friends, but with my daughter, I just like get in the car and go to the beach and I don’t need too many friends. But yes, here I’m feeling that loneliness.

Interviewer: Do you have any favorite parts about Mexico or?

Rocio: Well, if I’m able to travel, I like to go to the beach, of course, Cancun… Acapulco no more because it’s very dangerous right now. But nothing is near. It’s like, “Yes, we’re going to a trip and take an airplane and it’s too expensive. So it’s not…” That’s what I need from over there. Let’s go, even to the park. Let’s go and play to the park tennis and you have everything over there and here is nothing like that. I miss the freedom.

Interviewer: And since you’ve been back now, you’ve been back for 12, 13 years from Mexico. Do you think it’s gotten easier?

Rocio: No.

Interviewer: No?

Rocio: The same, with the jobs and harder with the jobs. I mean, if I start looking for a job, everything is till 18 to 35. And I’m like, “What?” I mean after 35 you can work or you can do anything. So I’m going to 59 this year. So it’s just crazy. I get lucky three years ago that I get that job, an assistant and it was good, but the pandemic was… Everybody was fired.

So right now, and I don’t even think about it because it took me like two years to get a job. And right now they here at 59 and they’re right. Stay at home.

Interviewer: So I think as the last question, what advice would you give to someone who is returning right now?

Rocio: It’s just that so many different stories that if they come back, most of… If you are older than 40 it’s going to be hard if you don’t have nobody, or if you trying to find a job. The kids, when they are younger, where they speak English, it’s easier for them. But that’s what I want to do, to reach associations that help them to go back to their towns because they don’t have any money or find a job here.

I don’t know anybody to do that job. It’s very hard for the people that came back and arrived to the airport and they don’t know what to do like me. When they took me back, they took me to Mexicali. I don’t even knew Mexicali before. And I crossed the border and “Bye.” And I was like, “What?” And now what I want to do? I need to ask for money because my family was in Tijuana, one of my family and they flew me here. But if not, I was like, “I don’t have money. What I’m going to do.” Yeah, it’s very hard. I don’t know. We need to speak out about who’s helping these people and how they can do it. Right now I don’t know how to help them. It’s very hard.

Interviewer: Those are all the questions that we have. Thank you so much for sharing. We know that’s hard and we really appreciate it.

Rocio: You’re welcome.

Interviewer: We learned a lot.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Rocio: Thank you very much.

Interviewer: Do you have any last things that you want to say before we leave?

Rocio: I wish and I thank you guys to do this, to have a voice, to let us have a voice, to understand here and what is like to be an immigrant. We go just to have a better life, not to steal jobs or… We want a better life because here is so difficult and coming back is just terrible. More that if you spend a lot of years over there, is just a huge change. Not because it’s your country. You can, “Oh yes, I arrive and everything’s going to be okay.” I mean, it’s terrible. It’s different. As when we arrive over there, it’s hard to start. It’s the same here. And if you have a voice to tell, because a lot of people doesn’t like Mexicans over there and we are hard workers. We just want a better living. And that people know why we live. We live here to go over there because it’s very hard to live in Mexico.

Interviewer: Thank you so much.

Rocio: You’re welcome.

Part 2

Interviewer: Okay, so I hope this isn’t difficult, so difficult to talk about. Again, I wanted to thank you, and if it’s too hard, we don’t need to talk about it, okay?

Rocio: Okay.

Interviewer: But something that we’ve been thinking about a lot, when we talk about people, that’s really struck us as we get to know people who have had to live without documents in the US, is just having to keep so much of your life often secret, and who you are, and I just wonder, for you, did you have to keep secrets when you were in the States, or did you have to not tell people things?

Rocio: Yes, of course. Most of my jobs was trying to hide that I was illegal. So I need to be careful with the friends that I meet, or with the people with my jobs, I need to be very careful all the time. If we talk about being Mexican, or being in the United States, I need to be very careful to not tell them that I was illegal.

Interviewer: So what happened, did they ask you questions?

Rocio: Yes. How did you arrive here, and if you arrived with the passport, and a visa, how long do you need to be here, and why have you been here for so long? I bought papers, so I tell them that I had my social security.

Interviewer: You bought papers?

Rocio: Yes.

Interviewer: And so, you told people that you had social security?

Rocio: That I have social security, yes, that’s the one I used when I was working in hotels, and that’s why, all the time, I work as a private assistant, personal assistant, and with rich people, because I can have another job.

Interviewer: So we hear a lot about that, and having social security that wasn’t yours, and all of that, and we hear about it a lot from the other side, it was just something that you get. What did it feel like to you, to have to give a fake social security?

Rocio: errible, because I was all the time afraid. So, if I get a job, I was sure to keep it for a long time, because I don’t want to go through again, if I get an hotel, and say, “This is my social security,” if they’re going to arrive with Immigration, and take me back. So yeah, it was very difficult.

Interviewer: So you felt like you couldn’t change jobs, because you have to put yourself at risk?

Rocio: I work two or three hotels, and then I met someone to introduce me to the richest people in Palm Springs, so they don’t ask me. They just ask, “Do you have papers?” “Yes.” “Okay, you be my personal assistant,” and phew, that’s what works for me, and I work, most of the time, with two people at the same time, and they never asked me.

Interviewer: And did they ever ask you about yourself?

Rocio: I told them after a few years, five, six years working with Mrs. Rousie, she was very nice. And she told me, “I knew, but I’m not going to ask you directly if you have papers or not.” So, she became like my second mom, she always told me, “You remind me when I was young,” so she took me under her wing, and she knew I was illegal.

Interviewer: So she was keeping the secret too?

Rocio: She was keeping the secret.

Interviewer: So when you worked for the hotels, did you pay taxes?

Rocio: Yes.

Interviewer: So under this fake social-

Rocio: Oh, yes. Yes. And after years, they give you a TIN.

Interviewer: A TIN.

Rocio: A TIN. So they know you are illegal, but you need to pay taxes. You don’t have nothing in return, but you pay tax.

Interviewer: And for you though, I’m trying to understand what it felt like. I mean, I know you had to do this, this was a way of getting a job, but do you remember the moment when you would go to a job with this, and what was it like to write down, or present your papers? What did it feel like-

Rocio: You know what? I was-

Interviewer: You can say it in Spanish if you want.

Rocio: … I was so secure of myself. When I arrived there, I don’t even think about staying. So a friend of mine told me, “Let’s go to Palm Springs, let’s go for a vacation,” he was living there already, and I said, “Let’s go for a month, or something.”

And then he said, “They need in this hotel, people cleaning rooms,” and I was like, “What?” Because I’m here, always working, not in hotels, or cleaning, in offices, and I said, “Well, okay, I’ll work for a month,” and stayed longer. And my first check, he said, “You can’t rent an apartment with this,” and … I don’t remember … yes, I arrived with the fake papers, but I was so secure that I didn’t even care, because I was like, “If I get it, good, if not, I don’t care?”

I fill out the papers, and everything, and I stayed there for five years. And then, when I changed to the second one, I’m going to be their room service, but it was harder to get in this hotel. They had a lot of tests, and asked questions, and I was like, “I never worked in a mini bar attendant,” and he said, “Oh, I worked in Cancun for a lot of years in a mini bar, and I was talking,” and I didn’t even … “Oh yes, you’re going to be this case manager,” and I was like, “What?” 

I said, “I don’t even know how to fill out the papers when you get something in the room,” and I was like, “Yeah, I can’t,” and I did it. I was like, “What do you do when you’re paid,” finding out how we’re going to do it. And my friend was like, “How did you do it?” And I needed to leave that job because somebody told us that Immigration was going to arrive, after a year. And I was doing pretty good. And I was like, “Oh, I’m getting sick, okay, I need to go, bye bye.” That’s the only job I needed to quit about it. 

Interviewer: Was it harder to … listening to you, and I’m seeing that it’s not just keeping secrets, but it’s also telling lies, right?

Rocio: Yes. You need to be good about it. And I was so secure of myself, because I was like, “If I get that, good, if not, I come back to Mexico.” It wasn’t my idea to stay over there, I didn’t plan it. So if good, it was good, if not. But over time, I was like, “I’ve been here for 10 years, and now I need to do something about it.” And I just can never find the person to help me to get papers.

Interviewer: So, you said that with your friends, that was at work, so at work, it was kind of scary, and you needed to stay at your job. And then you had to say things to get in the door, and do all this stuff. And then, what was her name, your personal assistant, Mrs. what?

Interviewer: R__?

Rocio: M__ R__.

Interviewer: M___ R__. You didn’t tell her, and she didn’t ask, right? That seems to be the situation, but you both knew?

Rocio: Uh-huh.

Interviewer: And then, you said with your friends, you couldn’t tell them either.

Rocio: Well, I have Mexican friends, I can tell them, because they were in the same situation. But if I knew American friends, no, I never told anybody.

Interviewer: Why didn’t you tell your American friends?

Rocio: Because I was afraid of telling them that I was … and that’s what happened. I had a relationship with an American guy, he told his family, that’s why I was deported. The family didn’t like me, and they called Immigration. As soon as I talk, they sent me back here.

Interviewer: Wow. Is that what you were afraid of, in terms of telling your friends?

Rocio: Yes. Because you can’t trust anybody. Not a lot of people like Mexicans working over there. So yeah, I was very careful about it.

Interviewer: But what about your friends? You didn’t trust your friends?

Rocio: No. American friends, not really to tell them that I was illegal. And because everybody saw me working, and I was there for a long time, they don’t even really ask.

Interviewer: What about your friend who is now taking care of your son? Did she know?

Rocio: Yes, she knew, but at the end… at the end. Now I don’t talk to her, I’m having a lot of problems with her. 

Interviewer: Does she till live with your son?

Rocio: We have a problem because she likes Trump, and I don’t. So in Facebook, I start putting like, “He’s a piece of shit,” or whatever, and she was like, “Don’t talk like that to my president,” and I was like, “What?” And I told her, “You know, Christie, we are adults, I trust you with my son, and we’re fighting with Trump, I mean, excuse me,” and she was so upset, so she unfriended me in Facebook. 

Interviewer: Wow. 

Rocio: So, I am so upset, because that way, I saw photos of my son, how is he doing? Where is he? And right now, I can’t. So I talk, not with her, but with her husband. But they answer me whenever they want, and the last time I talked to them, they said, “Chris is having a lot of problems.”

Interviewer: How old is he now?

Rocio: He’s going to turn 15.

Interviewer: And he doesn’t talk to you himself?

Rocio: Yeah, we were talking every month, you know, “How are you doing at school,” and blah, blah, blah. But now he’s getting older, and he is trying to understand now, what is going on. We tell him that you have two families, and I leave you there because I have a better life for you, but he’s not getting it. He’s struggling at school, he’s fighting, he’s depressed. So every time I talk to him, he gets depressed. 

And so, Christie told me, “You can’t talk to him too much, because every time you talk with him, it is difficult for him.” I said like, “Excuse me, but you need to take him to the shrink, and let him take everything out, and I need to talk with him, he’s my son, and I can explain to him.” 

The last time I talked with him, he took me by surprise. He asked me about his dad, and I never told him about his dad, you know? And I was like, “Okay, well I tell him everything,” “Your dad is there, he wants to talk with you, but Christie thinks that you are too young,” and Christie doesn’t want him to talk with his dad. So it’s just a battle right now. Crazy, crazy, crazy, and-

Interviewer: Go back to the secrets, are there secrets you’ve kept from your children, then?

Rocio: No. I mean, he was two years old when I left. And it’s just the situation, Karen’s still upset, but now that she has kids, she kind of understands a little bit more.

Interviewer: She’s come to see you, right? Karen?

Rocio: Not yet, she’s still in Sonora. She has three kids now, I want to kill her. She says, “Yes, it’s too much. Here in Mexico, it’s too hard to support the kids.”

Interviewer: Her husband is Mexican?

Rocio: He’s Mexican, having whatever job, so she’s struggling, and I tell her, “I’ll help you, but it’s your life, now, you’re an adult, you have three kids, and think what you’re going to do. I’ll help you with whatever I can. But I can’t fix everybody’s life, you’re driving me crazy.”

And now, with my situation with my divorce, it’s just, I have six months trying to registrarme con la registrar civil and I just can’t. They tell me, “Change your name to Rocio Santana.” So I need to change all my life, because I want to get divorced, so it’s just getting crazy, everything, I’ve been so stressed out, like a month ago, I’ve been like, crazy. Like I told your-

Interviewer: Students,

Rocio: … students, what I miss the most, they say, “I miss everything, I miss the freedom.” I mean, if I was stressed out, I can go out and walk, and it was just beautiful, The parks, go to the park and play tennis, and here, I go out, and just cars, and buildings, and stress, and crowded, and so I need to wash my hair all the time, “Rocio, calm down, everything’s going to be okay.”

I’m all the time like that. I’m taking care of my mom now, I’m living with her. So it is like, you know, “Don’t touch, it’s my house,” and she’s old, and my aunt … her brother asked me, because my two brothers passed away, one passed away when I arrived, and last year, my other brother passed away. So they said, “You don’t have a job, go and live with your mom,” and I was like, “Really?” I said like, “Well, okay, they pay everything, and I don’t have a job.” I said like, “Okay, I’ll take care of her.” But we never had a good relationship, so now it’s very hard. And getting older, you know, “Don’t touch that, it’s in my house, don’t turn the light on.”

Interviewer: Yeah.

Rocio: So I’m dealing with-

Interviewer: So, did the students ask you about home, you should have talked about it a little bit, like, what feels like home to you?

Rocio: Where?

Interviewer: Where is home?

Rocio: Over there. Everything. I mean, I don’t know … all my family told me, you arrived there, and you forgot about us, you forgot about Mexico. It was me, I was invincible, I can do anything. And here, I can’t get an apartment because necesito una aval y no tengo un aval. I can’t get a job, because I’m too old. I mean, I can’t do anything. And over there, it was so easy for me. I was very lucky to have everything. I have problems of course, but everything was easier. The respect, you know how to drive the neighbors, the music, everything was the way I am. Here, my neighbors, I want to kill all of them, because they put the music so loud, at three in the morning, and I went like, “What is this?”

Interviewer: So Rocio, being over there felt more like home, because you felt like you were more in your own skin?

Rocio: 100% That’s what I’ve been fighting all these years, to go back, and then Hector arrived, and he’s my angel guardian.

Interviewer: My guardian angel.

Rocio: Yeah. I mean, I met him since we were kids. I met him here in Mexico, but his father was American, so he gets his citizenship easy. But he lived here for a long time, we were friends for six years. He always wanted to be my boyfriend, but I have another boyfriend. I presented him, a friend of mine, and she was like, “Oh, I want everything with him.” He said, “Rocio, I want with you, not with her.” But he took her, and got married over there, and I lost contact with him. And three years ago, with Facebook, I saw his name, and I was like, “Oh my God, why didn’t I open my Facebook over there?” He’d been living for 30 years in Houston.

Interviewer: Wow.

Rocio: So I told him about everything, and he said, “Don’t worry, I’ll pay whatever it takes to bring you here.”

Interviewer: But you have to be divorced?

Rocio: And I have to be divorced.

Interviewer: And is he divorced?

Rocio: Yes. And we talk with lawyers, and everything. I told him, “I mean, this is going to be expensive, it’s like $7,000 for Immigration,” and, “It’s okay, I can deal with it.” I said, “Oh my God, he has money, thank God.” I mean, he’s been saving all his life, and right now, with the divorce, I’m like, “I need a lawyer for divorce, how much,” this and that, and he helped me monthly. I mean, he’s been great. And I haven’t seen him, all the time he’s like, “I’m going in summer,” but he… 

Interviewer: He just retired from a job.

Rocio: But he continued working in another. So now he’s going to retire in this one, because he has plans, like he dreamed … I don’t know, he’s dreaming too much, like, he’s so excited, “You’re going to here, I’m going to take you traveling, we are going to enjoy,” we like the same things, so he’s like, “God, please let me have this in my life.”

Interviewer: Oh, that’s wonderful.

Rocio: Yeah. But that’s the only thing right now, to keep me going. 

Interviewer: Well, that’s a big thing, that’s a really big thing.

Rocio: Yeah. So I’m like, “Please, God, let me end my …” but you know, maybe envejece with him.

Interviewer: I want to get old with him.

Rocio: And calm, relax, and enjoy life for once.

Interviewer: You deserve it.

Rocio: Yeah.

Interviewer: Can I ask you one question, based on what you said about home? I’m curious about what home means to you, do you think it’s a feeling that’s inside of you, or is it something that is outside, and a place, or a space, or physical?

Rocio: I think it’s yourself feeling secure, feeling happy in the place you are, tranquility, security. And of course it was a beautiful place, so I was feeling so secure, even though I was by myself. I don’t have any family, I feel so secure, very confident for what I was doing, and I love the place. So yeah, everything, you know en conjunto. 

Interviewer: In combination.

Rocio: It was everything.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Interviewer: I mean, you could manage mini bars, you could bullshit your way through.

Interviewer: Well, she was invincible. You were invincible.

Rocio: Yeah. I mean, I was like, “I can do it, by myself, I need to do it. I don’t call my aunt, and I don’t have money today, or I don’t have a job. No, I need to have a job. I need to support my kids, and I need to”-

Interviewer: So why do you think you could do that there? And you can’t do that here-

Rocio: I don’t know. 

Interviewer: …why can’t you be invincible?

Rocio: No, I don’t know.

Interviewer: Is it something about… I mean, it makes me think–

Rocio: Because before I was here, everybody told me like, “Rocio, you’re crazy, you go outside, you go travel, and nobody stops you,” I was that way-

Interviewer: Before?

Rocio: … before, yes. But as soon they took me back, I lost part of me, of course. So, I’m so scared of everything, now, getting older, it scares me more. The job, I can’t rent this, and everything is just complicated here, you know? I don’t know. It’s getting more difficult for me, right now.

Interviewer: Interesting. Thank you.

Rocio: You’re welcome.

Interviewer: Thank you very much.