Miguel IV

Mexico City, Mexico

Miguel IV

June 7, 2019

Interviewer: So just to start, do you mind going back, just to your first time migrating to the U.S. and what factors drove you from Mexico to the U.S.?

Miguel IV: When I got there, like I said, before I was seven years old, and I realized why, why they took me out of my place because my mom, my sisters, everybody came from Mexico. And for some reason my grandma sent me to the States. And when I was on the border, I remember I was in a car. It was the cops and the policemen at the border, it was with their flashlights aimed to my head. And I realized like, “What’s happening?” I didn’t understand what was happening, I was a kid. When I go in there I realized, like I said, in California, there’s a large Hispanic community. So I was received like warm. I was feeling warm. But, obviously was like saying to my grandfather, “You know what? I want to go back to Mexico. I miss my mom, I don’t feel better here, I don’t know what the people are saying.” Because I didn’t speak English.

Miguel IV: So that’s why when I started to speak English, it was like “okay, I understand what you were saying, on a one-to-one.” Or sometimes I realized where is the difference between the culture. That was the first thing because when they’re in the States, the Mexican community or Hispanic community, they are together. When I went back to here in Mexico, the people is not like that here. Everybody’s fighting each other. Instead of help out each other, the people is trying to get an advantage of you. They will cheat on you, even if they’re your family. So that’s happening over there in the States, but here – when you’re in the States, all the Hispanic people is like… They’re more protective of each other.

Interviewer: Were you a part of an English as a Second Language? Any program like that, to help you learn English or no?

Miguel IV: No, actually, no. Just I went to school and you’re starting to doing it because every day you’re listening English and stuff, so that’s why you get it. But I wish to be there before, like five, three years old. Because I got friends like that. Their first language was English and then Spanish. So that’s why I realized it was not perfect and all. I’m still doing mistakes right now, even if I’ve been there 10 years, but simply not a lot of mistakes. I mean, I started speaking every day, but that was because I would study. I was like, If I ever finish my high school and then I’d be doing university. So now you’ve got to realize, my English could be better. But as well, I want to improve it.

Miguel IV: Even if I’m there, I can study over here, or like I say, go to Canada. And then I start again, because daily basis. It’s about the lifestyle. Because when I get here, I just started to live with one of my friends, one from Vegas, like I told you, and a girl from California as well. So I realized they’re native speakers. So they taught me a lot about how to speak better, sound more confident, but yeah.

Interviewer: And these were your friends you made there? Can you tell me a bit about what it was like making friends in school? Did you like school?

Miguel IV: Yeah. The school, yeah, because I’m white, I want to sound like I’m as a good as whites, so that people aren’t going to realize I was Mexican. They’ll say like maybe, “Yeah, because he’s American.” Right now I say I’m Mexican, I’m proud of that. But yeah, I got friends, most likely they were Hispanic, because all the neighbors in my neighborhood. And at the school, yeah. At least I talk with everybody. I’m being that kind of person. Like, I will pay mine, and if you need something you can count on me and I’ll help you out. I got your back. So that’s why I always, always, because while my grandfather told me as well, “You know what? Everybody that needs help, you will need help someday. So you need to receive back. You need to give it and then you can get it back.”

Interviewer: Do you feel like that’s specific to your grandfather? You feel that’s an American value or if it’s a Mexican value? Where do you think that comes from?

Miguel IV: No, I think it was from my father, my grandfather, he was Mexican, like I said. I think it was most likely like Mexican culture, because here you can see the families living together. Even if you have more than 30 years old, they still together. And then in the States, it’s like, “No. You know what? You have your job, so get out of here.”

Interviewer: More independent.

Miguel IV: Yeah, exactly. Here in Mexico it’s not like that. So that’s why I prefer just… Actually, it’s not long time since I’ve been living alone. So I realized I really got somewhere for my things, and I don’t want anyone to tell me what to do. That’s why when I get back to back to Mexico, and that’s why I just left my grandma’s house, and I started living by myself.

Interviewer: In terms of outside of school, what you like to do, when you started forming your passion for film and movies, or really just what did you like to do in your childhood and going into high school?

Miguel IV: In my childhood, I remember the first cameras, like the Super 8, and used to film the grass, or, you know, there was a little girl over there, just filming her. And not like as a stalker, because for me, beauty is even in humans, and as well as in a woman. Because for me, woman is a representation of the muse. There is like Carl Jung, who is a psychologist. Say, “Okay, the human has this archetypes or these things, like they’re consciousness like behaviors.” We can show it as a muse or as the wise. So for me, I used what was following the muse. Actually I went up to her, like a girl, like talking to me and to her. It says poetry here, right? [referencing a tattoo that says “poetry” behind his ear] Because ever since I was kid, I fall in love with the Spanish, with the Spanish writers. In English and [inaudible 00:05:56], but poetry in the Arabic, [inaudible 00:05:59] I got in the ear. In poetry in the ear. . It was my first film, short film. Yeah. That’s why I always fall in love with arts.

Interviewer: You mentioned earlier this dynamic of knowing people who are in gangs in California, in Chicano communities where you were. And you were drawn to that for the culture, but then your family protected you. Do you mind explaining when you first got interested and kind of what kept you out of it?

Miguel IV: Exactly. Because I was like, “You know what? I want to go over there, take a ride with the homies and stuff.”

Interviewer: So were you friends with them already? Or like, how did that happen?

Miguel IV: Yeah. At the beginning it was my interest, it was about the outfit, how it looks like, with the hats.

Interviewer: The style?

Miguel IV: Yeah, the style. And I really liked the music and everything. But my grandfather told me, “No, no, you cannot go over there because if you start doing that, then when you’re going to grow older, or you’re going to go to the parties, you’re going to start, you know, interested in drugs or something like that.” So that’s why I just read it from the outside. I used to take pictures of that. Actually, I got a collection of those pictures in the ’90s. It was really, really cool.

Interviewer: Did you ever actually hang out with them or was it more from afar?

Miguel IV: No. More like kind of far. Yeah. Always good distance. Because my grandfather told me like, “No, I don’t want to let you go over there with them because I know somehow they’re going to recruit you to go to the gang,” and that’s tough because that’s why, because you’re Hispanic. Actually, there’s like, “Okay, if you’re Mexican, you’re going to stay here in California, you will follow the line.” And then they will start, like I say, doing drugs, or then it’s going guns. But for me it was like, “Okay, I’m considered from the outside.” I kind of learned from that, from the outside. But it’s not what I want for my life. To be honest, yes, I was interested to get to a party and the stuff, but I have other plans, you know?

Miguel IV: So that’s why as a filmmaker, as a creator, since I was kid, I was like, I need to observe. I need to watch what’s happening from the outside. Then I can make a judgment. Or I can make a history. Because if you’re inside, you can’t realize what’s happening, you’re involved. And then, you don’t realize what’s happening. When you got on the outside. You can study, you kind of get an analysis. But that’s why I prefer to just keep inside and in school, everybody know me. But I just went to school, go home and take pictures, play soccer, something like that in the streets. That’s it. As a kid.

Interviewer: What do you think are the factors that kind of drive a young person to become involved in gangs and enter that sort of cycle?

Miguel IV: Yeah because they know they have money. They have money even if they’re not working because they’re selling weed. Because other people say like, “Where do these people even enter my country, United States, if you’re getting drugs.” Because you’re the consumer, because you’re my client. Because if you want drugs, I got the drugs. You want weed, I got the weed. You want the coke, I got the coke. So you’re the consumer in the States, so your people is buying my stuff. So, okay. What is the problem? If the public’s already changed, right now it’s legal, and you can get it for recreation.

Miguel IV: People here in Mexico, I don’t understand. Like, “You know what? I got a problem. I like cholos a lot.” And it’s like, “Girl, take care of yourself. Be safe first.” Because I always, I been trying to be romantic. My friends told me it’s because you’re so courtesy, because you’re sort of romantic and the people is not looking for that. They’re looking for money or power or color tattoos and that stuff, it could be in jail. I don’t know. And just was like, “No, I’m not like that. I’m sorry girl.” I’m sorry.

Miguel IV: Sorry to disappoint you, but I never involved again.

Interviewer: So do you think there is sort of a specific attraction to that type of masculinity, I guess?

Miguel IV: Yeah I guess for that, for the image. Because actually, right now they have social media, but before it was scenes for history, like 200 years ago, in that century. That part of California was for Mexico. Belongs to Mexico. So that’s why the people reclaim, and they say like, “You know what? This is my place. Even though you put the border, that was my place, I’m going to cross over there. I’m going to live there. I’m going to make a lot of kids. It’s going to be Mexico again.” California, there’s some places, you cannot notice a difference. It could be like a neighborhood here in Mexico, over there in California.

Interviewer: Can you tell me a bit about your choice to come back to Mexico and sort of partially for independence? How did you get to that point?

Miguel IV: Yeah. Because like I said, this guy learned that wasn’t my family. One of them was kind of my uncle, told me like, “Hey, if your son go to the parties and that stuff, what did your father didn’t want for you. So you just go to Mexico, right to your place and do whatever you want.” And it’s like, “Okay, that’s what I want. That’s what I’m going to do.” So I just take my ticket and go back to Mexico. And I went here like, “Oh, my god, what I did?” I was like, “Oh, my god. I lost a big opportunity to grow up.” I realized like, “No, here in Mexican, you can do it as well.” Actually, here, the thing is a bunch of words, because the English, because when I got here, my Spanish was really bad. I needed to practice a lot. So it was the first problem. The second was the mindset of Mexicans. Like I said, I was there in the States, the Mexicans are used to start helping each other. Like here in Mexico, it’s not like that.

Miguel IV: The people is, like I say, cheating on you or always trying to get an advantage of you or because you got money, they’re saying they’re your friends. What I needed to realize when my friend told me, “Don’t trust anybody, not even yourself. First you, second you, and third you. Don’t trust anybody, even yourself.” So that’s why when I came from Mexico, I realized you need to take a look and really watch what is the other intention of the person. Actually, when I fell in love here once, I realized once like, “Oh, my god. The girls really like to play with guys,” because they take advantage. So I had realized like, yeah, first it’s self love and then you can share love with someone else.

Miguel IV: I realized you know what? I just want to do my job, grow up, go to Canada. And if something happened in the middle, it’s okay. But I’m focused. I got my goal, I got my goal. So I just go for it. So what I realized here in Mexico, the first thing I was, I don’t want to get stuck, learning drugs, learning anything else. You just want to go to school. And then, like I said, I studied cinematography and then just continued working.

Interviewer: Where do you think, that vision or drive… that self-discipline I guess is a good way of saying it, came from.

Miguel IV: Self discipline, yeah. Actually, by myself, because like I said, most of my life I’ve been doing by myself. So that’s why I realize, “Okay, Miguel IV, that’s you, second you, third you,” right? So when I got here it was like, “Okay.” Because I got, like I said, since I really like to learn from the outside perspective, like you say, I realized how the Mexicans do it as well. So I learned from the American style and kind of learn from the Mexican style. So I know what is good, what is bad, what I like for my people, is they really being loyal. When they say, “I got your back,” they really got your back.

Miguel IV: When you feel it’s real, it’s true, you feel it here, in your heart. It’s not something you need to go do with your mind. There’s no intellectual meaning, intellectual thinking, it’s just, you feel it. And it’s real difficult over there in the States because they have more skills, more peoples skills, and they can lie, and you realize like, “Oh, my god. I believe in him and what happened?” So it’s my instinct, that’s my… Because maybe I’m from here.

Interviewer: You said you were born in Mexico, you grew up until you were in elementary school and came to the U.S. And then you chose to go back to Mexico, but then you think you’ll eventually end up back in the U.S. to study and probably live a life in between the two? Is kind of what I seem to be getting. Do you feel like you are more, like in your soul, more of Mexico or more of the United States?

Miguel IV: To be honest, I feel more Mexican. The people from the States, they know what they want. And they like to be organized. Mostly people, like I said, from New York. They told me, “You know what? You need to go pay your bills. You need to do exercise. You need to do this and this and that.” So actually I used to start to learn martial arts. So actually I just came from my trainer. That’s why I got my like [references outfit]. That’s why I realized, when I get here, I need something to keep in discipline. That’s what I took from the States. That skill. This is missing here in Mexico. I been disciplined, focused on something. So that’s what I learned from there, and I just keep it here.

Interviewer: Nice. Do you feel like this kind of discipline, finding different avenues of martial arts, something to kind of focus your energy?

Miguel IV: Yeah, exactly.

Interviewer: Do you think that finding different ways to focus the energy of young people could be a way to kind of avoid entering gangs? Or do you think it has to do with they really have to have parental figures who are more strict and are like, “You can’t go there.”

Miguel IV: Yeah. I think somehow, when you’re a kid, you’re trying to follow an example. You’re trying to follow someone like, “Okay, it works for my parents, I’m going to do it for myself.” Or when you grow up and realize it depends on you. So I don’t want to say like, “Because my father was in a gang, I need to be in a gang.” No, because at the end it’s your decision, it’s your life. And I say like, actually, that happened when my friend, because his father was here, over here in the state of Mexico, and it’s really dangerous, ____ Morelos, since the early teen years. And he was following all the same mistakes like his father did. And so it was like, “Bro, you know, you’re a new person. You don’t need to follow all this stuff. You can create a new life because you have a second chance because you can die over there.”

Miguel IV: “You could die over there in Vegas, or you could die here in Mexico. And you still are alive, so do something. You have another chance of… let’s do something else.” And he was like, “Yeah, you have a point right there because I don’t want to get stabbed, or get shot or die just because I’m following the same mistakes.” So at the end, I think, it most likely depends on every person, because everybody is free to decide what they want for their lives. So for me, it’s like that, it’s on you, it’s on you. It depends up to you.

Interviewer: Do they have the information to make an informed choice?

Interviewer: I feel like you’ve had much more experience talking to people who have lived that sort of cycle. Anything that stands out to you from your experience with that?

Miguel IV: What I realized is like I said, loyalty. When people say like, “I got your back,” they really got their back. But sometimes, like I said, I don’t trust anybody, but at the end, what I learned is the gang over there, it’s because they know there’s another big country so they can do whatever they want because they’re affecting Americans, not Mexicans. They’re selling drugs and doing crystal, or selling all of this stuff that affects American people.

Miguel IV: They don’t give a fuck. They don’t give a fuck because, yeah, at some point you’re their clients. And maybe you’re going to give them my money because your dad is rich or because you got a good job or whatever, give it to me. I don’t care. You want the drugs, I got it. What you want? So that’s why I realize. I’m not going to agree at all, but at the end it’s like the people over there, they really like to do that stuff. That’s why it’s a big industry. So that’s why I realized that was the first point about the money. How it’s easy to get the money. My friend told me, “You know what? If you want a car, you can work a week and you can get a car.” Here in Mexico, you know how long you need to work to get a car? Maybe one year. Over there in the States, my friend told me, her name is Amy.

Miguel IV: She told me once, “You know what? I was having everything in the States. I was having a car, a lot of clothes, really good, everything. When I get here in Mexico, I value what is food, what is to be able to have a hug. I realized what is the value to be alone, what is the value for something real?” Because over there everything is plastic. Everything is money, everything is superficial. When you get here in Mexico, you realize what is really important. Have a house to sleep. Have something to eat. So that same thing is for default over there in the States.

Miguel IV: Here in Mexico, you really have the value. There is the difference, you know, because you told me like, “Hey, you got a BMW. You got a new BMW over there in Mexico. And you’re walking by yourself.” And realize like, “Oh yeah, that was a really good point.” So that’s why my goal is not have all that stuff —all the money and that stuff, because I already had it. Like I said, I already had it and was for me, it was an empty feeling. What I really want for my life is something else that I can’t buy in anywhere. In any store I can’t buy love. In the store I can’t buy confidence or loyalty, like I said.

Interviewer: So you plan on going back from Mexico to Canada you said? What are your thoughts?

Miguel IV: Yeah. To Toronto. Like I said, I want to study cinematography at Toronto Film School. Then I just want to get back to the States as a Canadian. I need to stay over there in Toronto maybe three years, maybe get married, something. You know what my friend told me? Get married, then divorced, then go back. Okay. Why not, why not? It is possible, why not? You never know what’s going to happen. So right now I’m single. So, all right. I’m like, “No, I’m not interested in that, but I can go and try it. Why not? “

Interviewer: Yeah, absolutely. Is there anything you’d like to add or reflect on before we wrap up?

Miguel IV: Yeah, actually, just one thing. Like I said, the conflict hearing of other cultures is we need to help each other. These kind of programs, I really like it, because they improve your life. It’s really interesting because maybe like I said, I guess, like you’re really an American. You have papers that you bring there. So for you, it’s like your daily life. You don’t need to realize, “Oh, my god. I’m speaking English,” or, “Oh, my god. I’m American. I’m in the United States.” So for the people, they have two cultures. They bi-cultural. It’s really important to know this. We can learn each other. Maybe you can learn from your skills, how to really create, or build loyalty with the people that surround you.

Miguel IV: I don’t need to know this when someone is cheating you. That’s a skill that you can learn. And as well, I learned from the States, like I said, is being organized and that stuff. So we can learn from each other. I think, at the end, we’re humans. We’re coming from the same place, and we’re going to the same place. At the end, it’s where I believe we’re souls, looking for the muse, like I said. I don’t know how to say it. Like when you get your individual… is self?

Miguel IV: So then you can realize like, okay, well, I’m a soul that has a body, not a body that has a soul.

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