Len I

Mexico City, Mexico

Len I

June 12, 2019

Interviewer: Tell me a little bit about why you went to the States.

Len I: Well, I went to the States because I had a job that I didn’t really like here in Mexico, working long hours, and getting very little money paid. Just ended up being frustrating. And then my friend talked to me about some exchange programs that made it really easy for Mexicans to go to the state. I think it took me, the whole process, maybe three months and I was already there. The only requirement is you had to work, of course, to pay whatever I had to pay for. So I was allowed to work as a part-time job and I was required also to get at least six school credits per semester.

Interviewer: So it was a student exchange that also allowed you to work?

Len I: Yeah. Part-time. I was not allowed to have a full-time job.

Interviewer: And tell me, where did you study?

Len I: I studied at Julliard and then I studied at SVA. SVA was mostly for completing the credits.

Interviewer: How did you manage to get accepted to Julliard? You must be amazing.

Len I: Well, at first, I was not sure if I was going to pass through all the interview process and everything, so I said, “Well, if I do not pass, I’m going to buy a nice camera with that money.” But I went to Julliard, first it was some information, informative sessions with the teachers, what kind of courses they were offering, then I applied, and then there were several interviews. And some of them asked you to bring whatever work you already had because, for music technology, there are some things that you know already how to do certain things about audio recording with a computer. Since I studied communications, I did have some work done in the studio that I had recorded for school, so I delivered what I had from school, had the interviews with the teachers. Sometimes they’ll have some other testing, which you’ll find the keyboard in the room and they’ll ask you different stuff. That was it.

Len I: After the last interview, just went home, I was just waiting for the news. Also, because I applied not for the entry class, I applied for a little bit more advanced class, so I said, “Well, maybe they’ll actually just give me the other class, but it’s fine as long as I get in.” But no, I actually got into the class I applied for, so it was pretty exciting.

Interviewer: That’s amazing. Did you like it?

Len I: I loved it. It was great. School itself, when you get in, it’s just like in the movies. As you’re walking through the hallway, you see people dancing around, you hear the different music coming from the different rooms, there’s windows in dancing rooms, so you can even see the ballet people while I was just heading to where they had the area for music technology. And the lobby’s on a different floor, so then you would get to see even more while you’re going downstairs.

Interviewer: Did you like living in the U.S.?

Len I: Yes, I did like it a lot and I just feel sometimes I didn’t fit in much in Mexico. Like here, they would say, “Oh, you’re weird because of this.” In the States, it was just totally normal.

Interviewer: What’s weird in Mexico and what’s normal in the States?

Len I: I don’t know. For instance, you’re a lot into technology, you like comics or certain things. They find the term “geek” or “nerd” as a bad thing and you get bullied because of that. In the States, people, I don’t know, they get really excited about that. You have a Superman sweatshirt and everybody on the street talks to you and is like, “Hey, I love your sweatshirt,” and you don’t even know them. I kind of felt like I fit in better, so I really liked it. And there were a lot of things that I could do that I like, like Julliard, or like the music festivals. They still have that here in Mexico, but it’s not quite the same. As a job, it also does not pay the same. Like in here, for recording, that kind of event, they’ll give you 400 pesos, over there they would give me $200 per hour. So the difference was huge.

Interviewer: Was it easy to make friends in the U.S.?

Len I: Yes. At first, in the first weeks, I didn’t meet that many people. My aunt introduced me to a couple of people, but eventually, I found this app called MeetUp, and at first, I was a bit hesitant to try it because in Mexico, it wouldn’t be the safest. They organize events and then you see people with the same interests, so I started attending and meeting a lot of people who liked the same things I did.

Len I: One of these MeetUp groups kind of became the group I would attend to every single week and they became my friends. I think since I’ve been in Mexico, 11 friends from that group have come to visit me already.

Interviewer: Wow. So it’s a MeetUp group?

Len I: No. It is a group in which you organize an event. You join a group that has the name of something you’re interested in. So you’ll type in video games, or comics, or hiking, and then you’ll find several groups. Then you pick one and then you respond to the event and the number of people attend this event. And if you like it, you’ll keep showing up to the events that this group is organizing. It’s just funny because the group I got very well along with was mostly for Asian girls, but then they invited me into the group and this was pretty much the people that I would always hang out with.

Interviewer: How did you connect with that group?

Len I: Well, I went to a MeetUp, there was a party, and at the party, I met one of these girls and she told me, “Oh, you should join this group.” I was like, “It’s only for Asians.” And then she told me, “You should just still apply and see if they let you into the group.” So I applied and then she told me, “Oh yeah, you got in.” I was like, “How did you know?” She’s like, “I manage the group.” So started showing up and she got too busy with work, so I was the one actually organizing the events every week. We would do different kind of activities. Sometimes go party, sometimes go for dinner, kayaking, karaoke. Yeah, every single week there was something to do.

Interviewer: Do you think that being in the United States changed you?

Len I: Yeah. I do think so. Well, I think living anywhere that it’s different from where you’ve always been, it changes you somehow. You have to adapt. I mean, at first, I had some family, but it was family that I did not meet until I was already there. So I had to adapt to living with different people, then living on my own, paying for my own stuff because I had always lived with my parents, but now I had to be responsible for myself. I think yes, but I was also a happier person because as I said, I felt like I fit in better. I don’t know, it also made me feel more free in a way. Well, maybe it’s also because my family here is very overprotective, so there, I could just go out, I didn’t have a problem or have to be calling anybody to let them know. I would tell my aunt, “Okay. It’s Friday, I’ll see you Monday.” And she would be fine. Because we lived in the suburbs, so I usually would stay with my friends over the weekend.

Interviewer: So you lived in the suburbs but you would stay in New York City?

Len I: Right.

Interviewer: Could you have stayed permanently in the U.S.?

Len I: I don’t think so unless I had gotten married or something. Yeah, no because even with the OM Visa, what I have heard from other musicians is that they had to renew it every single year. That was not so easy.

Interviewer: Is that something you would have liked?

Len I: Yeah, I would have liked it. But as I said, those visas were not passing at the time.

Interviewer: So what’s it been like to come back to Mexico?

Len I: What’s it been like? Well, the first month was a bit tough because I was kind of depressed. I do have family here, but I missed also my family over there, I missed my friends, I missed my job, the lifestyle. So at first, I was a bit depressed. Started looking for a job and it was not easy. And while I was doing the job search, I found HolaCode, which was a very nice thing to do and it did help me to feel better about being here because you find other people who, they speak English, they’ve been through also this thing about having to come back. Somehow, you have certain things that you identify with this group of people and then it also opens the doors to different careers, so that made it easier, the transition since it had been four months that I wasn’t here.

Interviewer: Do you think that the U.S. loses out by not giving people like you more permanent visas?

Len I: Probably. Well, New York has a lot of musicians, New York is like a city with artists. But I do think so because I was not the only one leaving, I saw the one from the TV that was Chinese. I had another friend that had renewed her visa for 20 years, she’s German and she also had to leave. I think they did lose a lot of people.

Interviewer: What do they lose?

Len I: They lose talent… they lose working people. What else? I don’t know, just a lot of people who are citizens get so many resources and money and they’re actually not giving anything to society, and then there’s people who are actually willing to work and they actually don’t really support this part. It’s like, “Well, you don’t have papers. I’m sorry, whatever you’re doing.” I guess they think someone else will do it or they just don’t really care that no one else is there to do it.

Interviewer: Do you think Mexico recognizes your talents?

Len I: No. Music is very bad paying here. For what I was doing in the States, I met another guy in HolaCode who currently has that kind of job and he’s now making a lot of money. It’s seems hard to find spaces. I guess I also need to network a bit more to get to know more people in the music industry here, but so far I don’t think, those skills haven’t been really helping me here. It’s not been very appreciated.

Interviewer: No meeting up here?

Len I: Well, there’s a MeetUp app still, but MeetUp app is super different in Mexico and it does make sense, I would be kind of scared that I’m invited to a stranger’s house to watch movies in here, so maybe I wouldn’t do that. The meet-ups are mostly for tech events, but they’re usually selling courses, it’s like, “Oh, do you want to be an expert in Java? You can join my MeetUp event.” And then you have to pay to attend. And as for the States, you pretty much pay the MeetUp app when you create the group and very few times you have to pay for attending the event. Unless, of course, it’s the movies, but you’ll pay your ticket right at the movie theater.

Interviewer: Have you been able to use any of the skills you acquired in Julliard here?

Len I: Not really. I haven’t been able to use any of my Julliard skills here. A little bit what brought me also to HolaCode was that I was trying to code music and maybe create plugins for musicians, that was pretty much how I started doing the coding stuff, and then I found HolaCode and I got interested. But so far, I haven’t developed yet these plugins because life here has been busy, so I’ve been working instead of doing this part. So maybe once I start working on that, it could be useful, but I think it’s still more useful for the music stuff I was doing in the States more than in here.

Interviewer: What kind of opportunity would someone need to offer you for you to be able to use those skills that you acquired in America?

Len I: What kind of opportunity? I don’t know. Maybe participating more in cultural events. Like I mentioned, New York had Make Music New York, Make Music Harlem, we have. I was also part of this group called Concrete Timbre I was invited by my Julliard classmates and they would have theater productions, so I would be working on the sound design for them. And I guess here, it can be a little bit of networking, getting to know people that organize this kind of events.

Interviewer: So if you went up to a person and said, “Hey, I went to Julliard and I learned all this stuff,” in Mexico, what would they say to you?

Len I: I did meet some people in the French Embassy at some point, they used to have an organization similar to Concrete Timbre, they did say, “Oh, you can write us an email. Maybe we can text and we can get you something.” But that actually never happened. Well, I mean, I did text them, but then that was about that, it didn’t go any farther. So I mean, ideally, yes, finding something maybe I could go back into that track. I don’t know if it’s because they already have their own programs. I don’t know at first, people do seem excited, but when it actually comes to actions, then they don’t really show more interest.

Interviewer: “Concrete Timbre” you said?

Len I: Yes.

Interviewer: But if you went up to a Mexican group, not the French Embassy and said, “Hey, I went to Julliard and the other school and I learned all this stuff. Is there any way I can work with you and bring those skills?” What would they say or what have they said?

Len I: I met the people in the French Embassy, but they had their own group, so they seemed open to collaborate, but we never actually got to that. I actually for some reason think this organization might not be active anymore and that might be part of the reason why. I guess it depends because again, like I said, I’ve met some musicians, the first day, they seem super excited, but then when it actually comes to sitting down and doing some work, I don’t get any answers. It’s like, “Oh, would you like to get together and try this thing?” There were some musicians in this cohort and we did create a music club, but we got too busy with the regular obligations of HolaCode, but we did start certain small projects. So I guess it’s just about meeting more people and seeing who’s actually willing to be developing something.

Interviewer: Do you think that that’s something that’s different about Mexico and the US, that talk and action part?

Len I: Yeah, I do think so because even with the MeetUp group, it’s like, “Oh, let’s get together and make a song.” And that night, the song is made. It’s not like, “Let’s plan about it, let’s talk about it. Later on.” It’s just, “We already gave a date and we’re not leaving until that song is there.”

Interviewer: What about the Mexican government? Do you think that the Mexican government could benefit from someone like you?

Len I: I don’t know how much they’re into arts. Probably. I was just recently listening about some new spaces that they’re opening for artists, I don’t know if it’s the government or just certain organizations that got the permission to get spaces. Yeah, it’s kind of new; it’s kind of exciting. I’m just trying to get more informed to see if I can participate in these kind of activities, but as for government-wise, I don’t know. I don’t see them too enthusiastic when it comes to certain arts. But maybe I’m just not really informed about the government.

Interviewer: Yeah. So it’s been frustrating.

Len I: Yeah, it was for a while at the beginning, not finding any job related or it was very badly paid. Not really knowing where most of the groups are because as I said, in MeetUp, it was super easy to find any kind of people, and here it’s like, where am I supposed to start looking? Facebook?

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