Javier I

Mexico City, Mexico

Javier I

June 6, 2019

Interviewer: How old are you?

Javier I: I’m 29 years old.

Interviewer: Where were you born?

Javier I: I was born in Puebla, Mexico. But I lived in the State of Mexico my whole life basically. So I was literally just born in Puebla and then moved to Mexico State.

Interviewer: Okay. Did you go to school in Mexico before you went to the U.S.?

Javier I: I did the primary, which is like middle school here and then like the secondary, I didn’t actually have a chance to finish it because I was 14 years old and my family was struggling with money. I am the oldest of four brothers and I actually started working when I was 11 years old.

Interviewer: So wait, how many grades did you do?

Javier I: Well in Mexican standards, I went all the way to the second of secondary.

Interviewer: Okay, so like seventh grade?

Javier I: Yeah, basically.

Interviewer: You said you started working when you were, how old?

Javier I: I was 11 years old.

Interviewer: What did you do?

Javier I: My step grandpa at the time, he had a construction company. He was like the foreman and he would bring me on the vacation times. He would bring me with him. I obviously didn’t work like stressful labor, but he was a little harsh on me. Just trying to make me understand what life and work was all about.

Interviewer: Any examples of what he did? What kind of things?

Javier I: Well, he always brought me around with him. I was always, always just strictly with him. He would never leave me with anybody else unless it was my stepdad. We would go to different sites for construction that we had and like basically I’ll always like carry his bag around and there were times that I had to do like a little bit of physical labor, like carrying like a small 25 kilos of cement from one location to another. Yeah, it was hard at the time though.

Interviewer: For a little guy [laughs].

Javier I: Yeah, it was. But it actually taught me a lot though for life in general.

Interviewer: What do you think it taught you?

Javier I: It taught me how hard it is to work, that particular part of life in general and that I didn’t want to do it. It taught me the bad things about it, good enough so that I actually never wanted to do it again. And I always wanted to better myself in order to never get stuck in that situation again.

Interviewer: You mean doing this kind of physical labor?

Javier I: Yeah I don’t mind doing physical labor, but I felt like that was just like, almost like punishment for heavy weights, long hours and like all of that. And I didn’t even work as much as like all the other people and I felt like, it was just very little money for it. Like too much labor.

Interviewer: Did he pay you as a child?

Javier I: Yeah, he paid me.

Interviewer: Why did you migrate to the US?

Javier I: It was my mom’s idea, actually. My mom and my stepdad’s idea at the time. They decided that the best for us would be… Well at that time it was very difficult for us here in Mexico. The money that I made, my parents never took it from me and my mom always was like, you’re making your own money and it’s your money. You can do whatever you want with it. So they always respected that part though. But it was their idea ultimately, I’m not sure what the goal was because at the end of the day they actually came back with nothing and it’s still with nothing. And then they separated and now it’s just… To me it just seemed like a big waste of time in general for both of them.

Interviewer: But do you think it was for economic reasons they hope to make it or?

Javier I: Yes, they thought it was going to be for economic reasons, but I don’t think that their thinking was just specific to the idea though. They thought everybody else here in Mexico that you just go out there and you start sweeping money when it’s actually not that way though. So when I got there… At that time, but by the time I got there after I was 15 years old.

Interviewer: You were 15 when you left?

Javier I: I was 15 when-

Interviewer: Let me just because I have to ask some questions here. And you entered just by crossing the border with a visa?

Javier I: No I actually, I walked through the desert three days and three nights by myself.

Interviewer: By yourself?

Javier I: Well, there was a group of people, but I was literally by myself. Like nobody, no one from my family.

Interviewer: You walked with your family?

Javier I: No, I went to live in Tijuana for about a year.

Interviewer: Wait a minute I thought you were with your mother.

Javier I: Yeah but they actually… My mom… Okay, here’s how it went. My mom and my stepdad, they moved to the Tijuana and me and my sister stayed in Mexico for about a year from 14 to 15.

Javier I: Okay at that time, my mom and my stepdad had left. They went to Tijuana Mexico, right. And then me and my sister had stayed back in Mexico for a whole year, but we were already out of school because that was, well that was what my mom told us. She was like, “No, you need to get out of school because we’re not going to be able to afford it and you’re just going to stay like that for a little while. But when we go up there, then we’ll see what we can do.” So then, my sister stayed. I was the first one to go and then I went to Tijuana by the time I got to Tijuana my-

Interviewer: But you went all by yourself to Tijuana as a 14 year old?

Javier I: Yeah. Then from that point, when I got there my mom was there, my stepdad before I got there my stepdad had already crossed.

Interviewer: And what was the crossing like for you? Was it… Anything happened?

Javier I: It was not even like that though. It was like, I was in Tijuana and then I had to buy a ticket for the bus to go to Sonora to the desert. And then from there they had me at this like little tiny hotel. I was there for like a week.

Interviewer: This is with the smugglers?

Javier I: Very, very poor conditions. Yeah, very poor conditions, not a whole lot of food. And it was extremely hot. You couldn’t go outside if you did there was literally nothing out there. I don’t know at that time I was like autopilot I didn’t really think about the situation I just basically focus on the destiny where I was going to. So what I did, I just stayed there and I just kept on autopilot like, okay, I don’t know what I was thinking at the time. I think I was thinking literally nothing because I was just like, okay. And then just waiting, just waiting for something to happen.

Javier I: Then they told me that like, “Okay, so we’re going to cross tomorrow.” So then the night before that they give us like a big meal because we need to be ready. We are going to live like in the middle of the night, right. And then from that point we get on trucks and then we go to a certain point in the middle of nowhere in the desert, we go across a couple of ranches and then after that they drop us off and then they were like okay, so we’re going to start walking from here.

Javier I: So I had a backpack and like three cans of tuna and like two bottles of what is called? Like the IV thing that they put you.

Interviewer: Gatorade?

Javier I: Kind of like Gatorade, but it wasn’t Gatorade. It was like sweet tea or something like that. So we go and then start, we start walking around and I see all these different people and I’m like, what’s up? What’s going on? There was a pregnant woman, she was like five months old and then her husband at some point, he actually started carrying her on his back and the souls on his feet when he took off his socks he had like a lot, like extremely big amounts of blood coming out of like his feet because they were like broken and like everything. It was just horrible.

Javier I: And then every time I looked at something like that I always looked at myself like okay I’m good. Because he also stepped on like a spines in the middle of the desert while he was carrying his wife and it’s like she didn’t want to like walk because she was like extremely exhausted. That’s like the most vivid memory that I have of that. That was the first night.

Interviewer: How many people were in your group?

Javier I: About 22 people.

Interviewer: But you were really the person you noticed was the guy carrying his pregnant wife? That was the person who made the impression on you.

Javier I: I think that by nature we always get close to whatever needs more attention at the time. And I think that that was my mentality I was like okay so he might need some help or she might need some help. So I tried to stay close to them, but there was a point where I had to choose between my wellbeing and their wellbeing because they were all the way in the back and I figure if we’re going to get scatter or if something happens then I needed to stay close to at least to the guy that knows where we’re going.

Javier I: So at that time I was like indecisive. But then I had to choose for myself so I had to move all the way to the front of the lines and I was always close to the guy, always closer to the guy. The guy did something and I always got close or at least I made sure that I knew where he was at all times because I know that nobody else knew the way.

Interviewer: And were there other children or were you the only child?

Javier I: I was the youngest one except for the baby that hadn’t been born. Yeah, I was the youngest one. So that was the first night morning and then during the day we took a couple breaks and they gave us all a guide. The things like don’t look up in the sky especially at night because your eyes are going to shine during the day the same thing if you see the helicopter don’t look up because your eyes are going to shine and there is going to be a reflection.

Interviewer: So you mean they could see you? If you look up they could-

Javier I: If you look up they could see the reflection of the light on your eyes. So they told us no sunglasses, no these not that and like just try to remain on the trail there was like no actual trail but like close to the trees or basically always close to the trees. So that if there’s like a helicopter going by or anything we get closer to the tree and then nobody sees you. So that was the first night. And then the second night all I saw when I woke up was like, actually it was like an ant hole right next to me. And I didn’t really sleep though. I was just lying there with the rock under my head. I was like, okay, so we’re going to go now anytime. I was literally just on autopilot the whole time. I never felt tired. I never felt angry, frustrated or anything. I was literally just like focus on my way.

Javier I: And then on the third… By the time we almost got there, like a bunch of things happened. Like we went up the Hills, down the Hills around mountains around like all kinds of different things. We went through a couple of ranches, more ranches, a couple of wells. We went up all the way to the well to see we could get some water because we were running out of water. Then there was this little river and we actually took… It was more like a little tiny Lake. So I tried to filter out a little bit of water with my shirt on a bottle and I was just trying to filter it so at least I didn’t get like rocks or anything like that. And then we’re just drinking that. Then at the last day when we got there-

Interviewer: Were you scared?

Javier I: No, I didn’t feel anything at all. I had never felt cold. I never felt hot. I don’t have any memory of any of those things. I was like literally on autopilot. I was just following the way, my feet got never tired and I was never exhausted and I wasn’t really eating a whole lot because like other people were actually looking out for me and they were like “Are you going to eat something?” And I’m like, “I’m not hungry. I’m not anything.” And they were actually sharing their stuff with me like “Here at least have this you going to need your energy or at least have some water, like you’re here by yourself and then nobody taking care of you.” I was like, “Thank you.” But I didn’t want to make any connections with anybody because I knew that if something were to happen I couldn’t rely on any of them. So I’d rather stay away from like connections at all that way I wouldn’t have to feel anything in general.

Javier I: So basically I shut myself down for the whole thing. After that on the very last day when we got there, we actually got… Well all of them got most of them there were like three or four of us that were actually left. Immigration services actually caught with us, right. And then they show up and all I remember was just like green silhouettes running around. And then I see all the group of people and everybody’s just like starts scattering and the guy is like la migra, la migra. And everybody just like scatter because that was the idea. That’s what they told us to do. So the first thing I did was the same thing that I was going to hold on like that guy is going that way, I’m going that way. He’s the only one that knows the way and he’s the only way that I am going to be able to either survive in this environment, stay here, stay alive or at least get somewhere.

Javier I: Because if he’s going to go, he can go back, I’ll go back with him. I don’t care but I will need to go somewhere because I’m not just going to start walking by myself. So I ran when they started coming and I ran and I ran towards the direction that the guy was going. Everybody else scattered on opposite different ways. And then I actually landed on like right behind a bush and then I just stayed on the ground. I just like, I laid down on the ground and I was there. And then I actually got to see how like pretty much everybody was getting arrested, but it was like literally from here to that door, like I’m like not even 25 feet. I could see everything.

Javier I: But I still wasn’t feeling anything. I was like, okay. And I don’t actually remember running that much. I remember just maybe I want to say like 10 steps max. And then I just saw a bush and I’m like here that’s the place, that’s it. And so when I was looking at everybody getting arrested and process and everything, I just happened to look behind me and I see the guy. He was like another 20 feet behind me on another bush.

Javier I: And I was like, okay, so I’ll just wait for these people to go and I’m going with that guy. I don’t care where he’s going, he is going to go somewhere where people is, where civilization or somewhere in general. And so he called somebody else and he’s like, we’re going to have to stay here for at least a couple of hours because they’re going to be looking around and this and that. And I was okay. So we stayed there.

Javier I: At that point we didn’t have backpacks no more because everything got scattered we didn’t have literally nothing. It was just what I was wearing. So after that we actually… When I caught up with the guy, I told him like, so what’s going to happen now? And he said, “Don’t worry I’m just going to make a couple calls.”

Interviewer: So it was just you and him left?

Javier I: Him, the extra guide, because there was like a backup guide. So it was the guide, the backup guide, me and two other people. It was a lady and another guy. But I don’t really have a recollection from. After that they made a couple of calls but nobody was answering. So I was like, what’s going to happen now? So I guess they got ahold of somebody or somebody actually called them, somebody called them.

Javier I: Somebody gave them a call back and they’re like, “Okay, so where are you at? And how many people you got left?” Because everybody else apparently got arrested. I mean up until this day, I still think if nobody else got arrested or some other people did not get arrested, like what might have happened to them. Because everybody got scattered and I don’t think they got all of them because I only saw like 10 people being processed and a group of like between 20 and 25 in general. And it was just five of us left. And including… I saw the one thing that was like, the only thing that made me get a reaction from it was when I saw the pregnant lady getting arrested.

Interviewer: She got arrested?

Javier I: Yeah and the husband, because at that point he couldn’t run no more, his souls were already like crushed, like horrible. And then I saw his face of disappointment, he was like. And then he literally just walked to them. He’s like, yeah, just take me already. But he said that was the third time that he had already tried that week. And I was like, wow like if I got caught the first time, I would never do it again. That’s it. Because I not wanting to give up, but I’ve never got caught.

Interviewer: How did you know it was his third time?

Javier I: He told us. They were sharing their stories along the way a little bit.

Interviewer: So he was saying this is his third time?

Javier I: Like in the middle of the night or like when we were resting in a couple of places, they were actually sharing a couple of stories. Everybody was asking me, but I didn’t really have anything to say. I was like “Well, I’m just going, this is my first time and I don’t know what to expect literally.” So it was that way though. And then after that we actually made it across. There was somebody else that picked us up. But it was a totally different scenario from the people that we originally agree with and they actually charged us more. And I think we stayed… We actually got to Phoenix, we stayed in a house. I thought the hotel was bad when we were there, the one with the crappy installations. But when we got to the house it was even worse. It was just a big room with carpet, that’s it. Noisy, no windows, no nothing. That was literally it.

Interviewer: So then what happened? You reunited with your parents?

Javier I: No, not even that. When was I was already in Phoenix they made a call and they didn’t know what to do because since they were charging us more my family didn’t have the money either, so we were trying to find a way to do something. So at that time one of my cousins she lived in North Carolina at the time, but she was in California for a visit and her husband, she’s a US citizen like he was born there. So he actually… They ask him to see if he could actually go and pick me up. And he had literally just got another work and his work was driving around delivering products for a store or something like that.

Javier I: And he went and picked me up straight coming out of work, got on this truck and he went all the way to Phoenix he went and picked me up. We’ve never met before. And I was more concerned for my life then than when I was in the middle of the desert because he was really, really tired. He was actually falling asleep on the wheel in the middle of the road and he swerved about a couple of times and I was like, whoa. Like I don’t even know how to drive. Like, what am I supposed to do?

Javier I: But we actually made it safe. The first thing that I actually ate when I got there, well after like staying in the room in the big room with like nothing to eat for like two days. The first thing that he bought me was a Carl’s Junior burger a superstar.

Interviewer: A Carl’s Junior?

Javier I: Yeah, Carl’s Junior superstar.

Interviewer: And how did that taste?

Javier I: It was delicious. I always liked Carl Junior for some reason, but I think it was because my mom had already had been before in the United States. And she told me she used to share stories when I was younger than that, that she used to work at Carl Junior. So I think that’s where my idea got stuck. And then when he asked me, “Want do you want to eat?” I’m like, “I want to try or a Carl Junior burger.” And I did and then after that we made it to California in the middle of the night. We didn’t get any retention points or any immigration or anything at all. So like basically the whole way, I was very lucky, I would say.

Interviewer: So did you become a US resident?

Javier I: No, I stayed there for 14 years.

Interviewer: So you didn’t speak any English when you went?

Javier I: No, not at all.

Interviewer: And did you learn English when you were in the US?

Javier I: Yes.

Interviewer: How did you learn English?

Javier I: First I tried ESL, English as a Second Language for adults.

Interviewer: At school or?

Javier I: At school. I went to [inaudible], well that was the name of the school [inaudible] school. But I didn’t like it though. I got bored easily, I actually picked it up really fast in English because I don’t know my ideas were different than most people. Most people think like, oh yeah, I’m going to go there and I’m going to work my ass off and I’m going to make something. And my idea was actually to become better because I had already seen the bad part of staying to where I am or where I was at the time. So I actually picked up English very fast and the other students didn’t as much though. So I got bored and then I stopped going.

Interviewer: So you stopped going to school?

Javier I: I stopped going to school after like… I went to be more specific to approximately 32 classes, that’s it.

Interviewer: As a 14 year old?

Javier I: As a 14 year old. And those classes were only three hours. And there were only four days a week.

Interviewer: You didn’t finish school?

Javier I: No, I didn’t finish school. But I did get certifications for participation and for helping my peers and all of that. But I never really got the certification for that because I didn’t finish the cycle.

Interviewer: So you didn’t finish eighth grade or anything?

Javier I: No.

Interviewer: So did you start working?

Javier I: I tried to do what I was told and that didn’t work very well because I was told to go to like the home depots and like stay around and see if somebody was going to pick me up to go to work on intense, well not intense but like on physical labor. Right. And I did it for a little while and then one day I was like, what the hell am I doing here? Like this is not what I came here to do and I could have done this there. I was already doing it. So then I talked to one of my uncles, he was already there.

Interviewer: Where were you leaving?

Javier I: In California in Norwalk.

Interviewer: Norwalk?

Javier I: Norwalk, California. Actually it was Norwalk Boulevard but it was on a-

Interviewer: Is it LA?

Javier I: No, it’s Orange County but it’s close to LA County. Around Lakewood. Lakewood, California.

Interviewer: Okay, go ahead. So you went, you didn’t want to do this home depot thing?

Javier I: I didn’t want to do that. Yeah because like to me it was like meaningless. Like I’m going to be doing it. Maybe I’m going to be lucky enough to get something that day, but the whole week what about the rest of the week? Maybe what about my future that I… I’m not going to be… For me it was like useless. I was like I can make today $50 or $100 and then tomorrow maybe make something get lucky enough to maybe get a job. But I did get offered a bunch of different jobs in that same category, but I still didn’t want to do that because I had already the idea in my mind that I wanted to do something different.

Interviewer: So you didn’t work?

Javier I: Yeah I did work. But I was every day that I went there, I just went there because I was living with my aunt and she was like the kind of people that like no you need to work if you’re going to be here.

Interviewer: So what work did you do when you worked?

Javier I: It was like painting, construction, drywall, carwash. I actually, I ended up working for a private carwash that we washed classic cars. They charge a lot of money but they paid me like almost nothing to do it. And it was very hard. So I didn’t want to continue to suffer because like I had already suffered a big part of my life. And so I got out of there and I was like, no, I don’t want this. And then I worked with a guy who was also doing construction. And the first thing that I told him that “How much are you going to pay me.” He’s like, “Do you want to work?” I’m like, “Yeah, but I also want to make money. I don’t just want to work. I don’t want to work for free.” And then he actually paid me $8 an hour, but it was a steady job though, he was actually like picking me up every day and the only thing is I had to pay for my meals and then at the end of the day he would drop me off at a bus station.

Interviewer: What work was it?

Javier I: It was also construction. He was like a foreman, but it was like from scratch we were doing the piping. He was like the plumber for big construction sites and we’re doing the piping. So basically I was doing all the labor, like making the holes in the ground and he was just laying the pipe and putting everything together and I was covering the holes again. But it was the same thing as construction so I didn’t want it.

Interviewer: So how many years did you work in the States would you say?

Javier I: Pretty much the whole time I was there.

Interviewer: Which was how many years?

Javier I: About 12 years. And I did my taxes every year.

Interviewer: And how much were you paid in the last job you had?

Javier I: In the very last one?

Interviewer: Yeah.

Javier I: In the very last one that’s when I was already successful, I became a chef after that, after the construction and everything. I didn’t like that. So my uncle told me, he’s like, “Where I used to work at this restaurant if you want to we can go and apply together.” Because he wasn’t working at the time. He was like, “We can go ahead and apply together and see what happens.” And he’s like, “But you’re going to need some form of ID. So we’re going to go and we’re going to get you some fake papers and this and that.” I’m like, “Okay.” So we went there. It was the day before my birthday. And it was a Romano’s Macaroni Grill in Seal Beach, California.

Interviewer: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Javier I: It was Romano’s Macaroni Grill in Seal Beach, California I started as a dish washer. They gave me the job right away. And my uncle, the person who had already had worked there, he didn’t get the job.

Interviewer: Oh dear.

Javier I: But I got the job and it was washing the dishes. And so I was like, okay, I can do this. It’s washing dishes, how hard can it be? But it was very hard. It was extremely hard. There were times that I wanted to just destroy everything and just go out running. We had like our volume of people at that time was like between the 600 and 1300 per day. So I didn’t want to do dishes anymore. After a month of doing dishes, they saw me that I started interacting with the servers that were going through the back because I was bored by myself. And I wanted to practice my English. So did nobody wanted to talk to me. So I just started singing and that’s actually the way that I learned English the most. Like by just listening to music and just repeating, repeating, repeating, repeating.

Javier I: And then one day a server start coming up and they’re like, “Do you hear this guy? He’s got such a perfect accent.” And I was singing and then one of these girls, Nicole was her name, she told me, she’s like, “You have very, very good English. Like you’re not missing one word from that song.” So she encouraged me a lot and basically all of the servers in there because I didn’t get along with the other Mexicans. They were mean, they were… What do you call them? I guess there’s no word for that in English, but it would be machista [sexist]. Like very like I’m a manly man and blah, blah, blah this. You’re working in the kitchen. So they moved me when they saw that I started interacting with the servers. My boss-

Interviewer: And the servers they weren’t Mexicans?

Javier I: No, they were all Americans. All whities and all from like, basically like rich parents. They were all from Los Alamitos High, like very nice places. But they actually, they were nice to me. They were interacting. And they taught me a lot. We actually went to parties together and I learned more English and I started interacting and that basically just submerged myself into the culture because I didn’t get along with the Mexicans and I figured I already speak Spanish, so why not? So I started hanging out with them. A month later they moved me to the kitchen. They were like, “Okay, since you actually have better communication than the person that we have doing salads, then you’re going to start training on the salad station.” And so I started communicating with the servers and they saw me and all the Mexicans hated me more.

Javier I: But it was good though. It was good. It was all for I want to say destiny and good reasons or whatever. So from that point on I started doing the salads in my station and everything and it was still very hard though, but I liked it. So I liked it and for me it was a challenge and I was moving up. So that’s what I liked the most. I’m like, okay, I’m moving up. And then these people is actually starting to recognize me, they started to like me, they bring me to their parties, they bring me to their gatherings and everything and I just felt good about it. I continued to do that. And then at some point the boss from the restaurant didn’t want to pay my training for other stations because I was already… I’m the kind of person that I get things very fast and then I get bored because there’s nothing else. So I need something else.

Javier I: They didn’t want to pay for my training to go to other stations. So I trained myself in the restaurant while I was doing my salads. And when there was a little bit of free time, I looked at them and I was just looking at what they were doing, the other dishes and everything. And like I said, most of them were mean, right. But there was this one guy and he’s like, “Yeah and then you do this and then you add this and then you do it like that.”

Javier I: I was like, “Oh, okay. Thank you. All right. I don’t want to interrupt you. I don’t want to bother you or anything so I’ll just look if you want to.” And he’s like, “No, no, no I’ll teach you. You want to learn, I’ll teach you.” And he actually taught me a lot though. And then when the other cooks saw that he was actually like teaching me they started like trying to involve me a little bit, but there was still being mean, always talking crap and always being disrespectful and like literally always like against me the whole time.

Javier I: But I never actually let that stop me at one point after a couple of years working at the same restaurant, I actually ended up being the head cook, one of the Culinary Masters in the restaurant. And at that point I already had friends and my friends would go to a restaurant like, “Yeah, we’re going to go see Tony.” And then when they would go and grab a table because it was an open kitchen, they would all send out like, “Hey Tony. Hey Tony.” I always wanted to… I started liking it. And then-

Interviewer: So did the Mexicans ever like pick on you?

Javier I: Yeah, the whole time.

Interviewer: Did they ever beat, I mean did they ever-

Javier I: No, nothing physically. It was mostly verbal. And it was like, “This fucking guy and he thinks he’s so much and now just because he’s hanging out with the gringos and this and that.” I’m like, “Well, you didn’t want me to hang out with you.” So I continued to do that.

Interviewer: And what were your favorite things to cook?

Javier I: I worked there until 2013.

Interviewer: So what were your favorite things to cook?

Javier I: Everything.

Interviewer: What were you best at?

Javier I: Well, I liked working in that restaurant because everything was from scratch.

Interviewer: It was an Italian restaurant?

Javier I: It was Romano’s Macaroni Grill in Seal beach, California. Till this day, you can still go there and say, you remember Tony.

Javier I: And then after that I also actually learned Italian for working in the Italian restaurant, just a couple of phrases but then I continued to do my Culinary Arts. The reason why I like working in that restaurant at that time is because literally everything was from scratch. And I just, I like building things and I like to work with my hands a lot. But then after it got a little corporate and everything, everything started coming in pre-dawn and it just frozen and everything. And I didn’t like it. So I looked for another job, but I was still working there because that was the first restaurant. That was the one that created me literally.

Javier I: After that I worked at a Greek restaurant. It was like right down the street to. I worked at that one, but there were also kind of mean and they really didn’t pay really good. So I was like, okay, I just did it for like a couple months.

Interviewer: Did you learn how to cook Greek food?

Javier I: Yeah, I actually… Well my story is getting better though. I worked at Romano’s Macaroni Grill till like 2013.

Javier I: For about seven or eight years, I worked in the same restaurant.

Interviewer: So wait a minute. Tell me about the Greek restaurant though, what did you learn there?

Javier I: I learned avgolemono. That’s a really good soup. I loved it. It was my favorite. Yeah. And then there were like this little tiny wraps with the grape leaves. I don’t remember what those are called-

Interviewer: Dolmades

Javier I: … It was such a long time. Yeah, those are like really good though. And like veggie lasagna and it’s basically very similar though. I liked it, I liked it a lot. And I remember this a specific trade from my boss because every morning he would come in the kitchen, grab a whole onion with a cup of coffee, no sugar just straight black and he would eat the onion like if it was an apple every morning and drink his coffee with his onion, every morning, every single morning. That was the one thing that I was like. But this guy was healthy, like a bull. So I guess onion is really good for you in the morning.

Javier I: And then after that I worked at Mediterranean restaurant too. I worked… What’s it called? Daily Grill in Irvine California. I was offered a job there by one of the chef’s that used to work at Romano’s Macaroni Grill through the whole time that I was there at Romano’s Macaroni Grill all of my kitchen managers were Mexican and they also hated me because they were always talking about soccer and I was like, “I don’t follow soccer.” And they’re like, “What about football?” “I don’t follow football.” “What sports do you follow?” “I don’t follow any sports because I can be a fan of anybody that doesn’t really like provide anything for me.”

Javier I: I’m not playing in the team, so I’m not going to make a difference whether I cheer for them or not. And I was like, so I’m trying to focus on me and the things that I like because I am number one in my life. I am the most important. And at that time, well they hated me until this guy, Derek Hamilton, he’s actually one of the greatest chefs in California. He came up from literally from the hood in California and he opened a bunch of really, really great fancy restaurants. He actually is the one that offered me a job on a Daily Grill. He told me, he was like… Because at that time I didn’t work at Macaroni Grill anymore and he didn’t even have my contact information, but he told one of the other cooks, because I also train my other cooks and he was like, “I need Tony, I want Tony here. Just call Tony, have him contact me and then I’ll give him a job.”

Javier I: So he actually did offer me a job when I went to work in Irvine California for about a year at that time I was already, I got better. I actually ended up making $15 an hour at that restaurant. Then after that I had a rough patch like the last couple of years. So I figure I had already gotten the best out of California. I went to parties, I went to Yosemite every summer. I actually took my own vacations with one of the bartenders and one of her friends and all three of us would go to Yosemite to the woods and just have fun. Go to the river, go to the trails. I was living an American life, but as a Mexican literally. I went to all the places, I went to all the parties, I went to all the clubs and I met all the people. It was really nice though. And after that when I had my rough couple-

Interviewer: So what’s an American life?

Javier I: A normal life for an American person.

Interviewer: Which is?

Javier I: Well I guess, well in California it was a lot of party. It was a lot of drinking, date night you name it. And then also just like… By continuing with your life like you work very hard. The analogy that they taught me was basically like Hakuna Matata, but it was more like work hard and play harder. So I just follow those rules. I’m like, I worked very hard, so I’m going to go and play very hard too.

Interviewer: So in your last job in the US, how much did you earn an hour?

Javier I: The last one was $20 an hour. At that point, after my rough years in California I moved to Florida. And when I moved to Florida, I had already experienced multiple restaurants before I had the Mediterranean, the Greek, the Italian, Korean and Japanese. So I was five already. And then when I moved to Florida, I went to work at Yabba’s Island Grill.

Javier I: It’s on Fifth Avenue, South in Naples, Florida and that was my first job. The guy told me, he’s like, “Do you want a job?” I’m like, “Yeah.” He’s like, “What can you do?” I’m like, “Anything.” He’s like, “No, seriously, what station do you work?” I’m like “All of them. Whatever you want” He’s like, “Are you sure?” I’m like, “Yeah.” Okay. “So can you do Sauté?” I’m like, “Yeah I can do Sauté.” He’s like, “How much do you want?” “I cannot tell you how much I want because I probably want like $25 an hour, but you probably cannot afford it. So tell me what you can give me. And I’ll say whether yes or not.”

Javier I: And they always hated when I said that because it was like, it’s true though you can offer me what I want I probably want a lot more but you just cannot give me that. And it would be blamed for me to think that you could. So what can you give me? And then I’ll say yes or no. He’s like, “Okay, well are you good?” I’m like, “You can try me if you want.” All right, you can try me if you want and then you can decide for yourself. Like, “Okay, I’m going to start you with 1350 an hour.” It was like, “Okay, sure.” Because he asked me, he’s like, how much did you make in the last job?” “15,” he was like, “I can’t give you 15. I don’t even know how you work. You’ve never been here. Nobody knows you.” Okay, “That’s fine.

Javier I: How much can you give me?” So he started me with 13.50. Three weeks later he was like, “Okay, you’re going to get your raise, you deliver.” They told me, they’re like, you do sauté? “Yeah I do sauté, I’ll do everything.” So I started working and then the other chefs because there were like five chefs in that restaurant and all of them were like, “Oh, okay. Yeah, no, Tony is good don’t scare him. Give him his money.” And like they were always joking around.

Javier I: And after that, I actually got a very nice offer by this very good chef a graduated from CIA, Culinary Institute of America and he opened a restaurant that’s called Seventh Avenue Social. It’s also in Naples, but it’s on Seventh Avenue. One day I went there… I met this guy at a bar, actually at a bar and he’s like, “What do you do?” I’m like, “I’m a cook.” I’m like, “What do you do?” He’s like, “I’m a cook too.” But I didn’t know he was a chef. He’s like, “I’m a cook too. Like, do you want a job?” “Well, I have a job right now.” “No, come check my restaurant. What can you do?” “I’m like, anything.”

Javier I: He is like really? Just like the other guy. And I was like, “Yeah, I can do anything.” “Can you work this station?” “Yeah.” “Can you work that?” “Yeah, I can work all the stations.” Dish washer, I’ve already done dish washing if you want me to, if that’s what you need and you’re going to pay me good, then I guess I’ll do that. And he’s like, “Okay, just come by, check the restaurant and everything.” The restaurant was a brand new concept. It had been open for like a month. And he brought me in and I went and checked the installations. Everything was really nice and pretty. And then he told me, he’s like, “So how much do you want?” And I’m like, “Well, how much can you give me?” Like, “how much are you making at your other job?” “14.” Because they gave me a raise to 14.

Javier I: He’s like, “I’ll give you 15.” I was like, “Okay, I’ll go tomorrow, tell them and then I come back the next day and start working.” “So you’re not going to give them your two weeks.” “No, they told me that it’s okay. They told me they don’t need me, so I guess they don’t need me.” And I started working there and after two months I became a kitchen manager on that same restaurant.

Interviewer: That’s fantastic.

Javier I: And I started working in other concepts. After that I worked there for a year as a kitchen manager. Then I move on to French cuisine, then I move on to American cuisines, brisket and all the good stuff from the South. Fragment tomatoes, colored greens, everything. Shrimp and grits I also worked a European breakfast for a place it’s on Fifth Avenue it’s called The Cafe.

Interviewer: To skip ahead though a little bit.

Javier I: And then the very last one was an Italian and it was $20 an hour on that one. They told me that like I needed a chef. I had already built my reputation there and they told me what I needed a chef and I need you I don’t need anybody else. I need you because the chef told me, he was like, I need a monster. I need a monster in the kitchen and I need these people to be trained well.

Javier I: At that time, he actually pulled me out from another job that I had the same shift D.L. and he is like “No, I want you here but you’re not going to be the boss from this kitchen is going to be this guy.” And it was a guy that I had trained before. So I was actually proud of that, that he actually became a Sous-chef because of my training. Because he was the kind of guy though that reminded me of me when I first started washing dishes and I just wanted to try everything away and be like, fuck this.

Interviewer: I want to circle back to some stuff. So when you were in the States, who did you live with? You lived with your parents first?

Javier I: I lived in my aunt’s house for about a year. But I didn’t really like it because she was very strict.

Interviewer: And then?

Javier I: After that we moved out and I live with my mom. At that time my mom had already got into the US because I was living with my stepdad only first. Then my mom got there and then we got a place together. But it was almost the same thing. I always felt like I’d never really connected with many people in my life, especially with my family because of my ideas the way I think and everything. And they’re more like a little more close-minded.

Javier I: Then I just moved out and when I worked at the Italian restaurant there was this bus boy, he was from all the Guadalajara. He was the only nice Mexican with me at that place. And he actually told me, he’s like, “Well, you need a place to live? It’s closer to work. It’s 20 minutes down the street and you can live there. I have an extra room.” So I lived there for a year with him.

Javier I: And after that I made a lot of friends at the bar and I literally made a family out of that bond. And then they actually told me like, “Tony do you need a place to stay? I have an extra room in my house, I’ll charge you $500.” And we actually went to live with a really nice place. He was a Homeowner’s Association and it was really nice. I had a pool, I had a Jacuzzi, I had everything.

Interviewer: Were you frightened of the US authorities?

Javier I: Never.

Interviewer: No.

Javier I: No, because I always acted apart, I guess I was living like I was American and I never really did like sketchy things. I did everything that all the American people that I knew did. That way I would just blend in.

Interviewer: Sort of like crossing the border?

Javier I: Uh-huh (affirmative), yeah, basically. So like I just blend in.

Interviewer: Did you follow the guys?

Javier I: Yeah I follow the guys to put the example and that’s it. I follow the example and if I see that that example works then it has work and it actually works for me. So I did that and then I did the same thing as being a chef. I moved on to different places and at that time I was even picky when I was in Florida because I was like, I’m not going to work this, I’m not going to work for this money. I’m going to go to another restaurant. Like I know my value, I know what I can do. But I always like I always put myself first, not because of I needed a job, not because I was illegal. But the other thing that I wanted to do when I started doing that was show everybody that just because you don’t have papers doesn’t mean that you cannot have a really nice decent job where people will treat you with respect and that you actually have a nice position though.

Javier I: But also not to get like all snobby about it because a lot of people did. And that’s what happened with the cooks at Macaroni Grill they all had papers and they were all already Culinary and they just felt like nobody deserves them. And I wanted to change that perspective from everybody else or at least one from the people that was around me. So all of my people that I work with and all the people that I train, I always gave them a different perspective. I’m like, “No, you can try it this way. It works for me. I do it fast try and see if it works for you.” But I would never do what the other cooks did to me like, no, no, no, please go that way because you’re on my way. I would always actually try to include them because I remember how it felt like nobody wanted to train me.

Javier I: So I wanted to change that experience from somebody else. And I did though because I made that guy become a Sous-chef when he said… I asked him one time like, “Carlos, you’re going to be doing this the rest of your life and you hate it. You might as well not do it.” He’s like, “No fuck that. I’m not going to be doing this the rest of my life.” And then one year later I find out that he’s actually the Sous-chef. And then he told me, he’s like, “I only stayed because of you.”

Interviewer: So in this time that you were earning all this money did you send money to relatives in Mexico ever?

Javier I: No. I never wanted people to look at me that way because in Mexican culture, it’s very popular if you have somebody out there in the safe, they always ask you for money and they always expect for you to be there economically for them. And I never wanted that to happen because I always thought if something were to happen to me, then where are you going to get money from? Who’s going to be taking care of you? So you need to learn to be able to take care of yourself by yourself. Yeah. If I can, once in a while I will send you something, but it’s just going to be a present don’t think it’s a habit because I don’t want you to rely on me. There’s a lot of people and I don’t want anybody to rely on me in general because I try not to rely on anybody so that at least if I don’t help them, I will not hurt them.

Interviewer: And how long did you live in the US?

Javier I: Altogether it was probably like 13 and a half years.

Interviewer: And did you follow US news when you were living there? Did you follow what was going on politically in the US?

Javier I: I didn’t really have to because everybody was talking about it the whole time everywhere. So basically-

Interviewer: So you heard it from family and friends?

Javier I: From friends, yeah.

Interviewer: Did you follow what was going on in Mexico?

Javier I: No, I actually pretty much stayed away from all the news from here. There was a time I didn’t even know who the president was here in Mexico.

Interviewer: Why did you leave the United States? Did you make the decision?

Javier I: I made a decision. I actually never got in trouble. I never got such a thing like, not even a ticket. I got pulled over in California on like a billion times and they always told me the same stories because you fit a profile. It’s because you fit a profile. And I was like, “You know what officer, I know you’re just doing your job. I’m tired and I just got out of work. You do what you have to do so that I can go on my way.”

Interviewer: So why did you decide to leave?

Javier I: When I was in Florida, the last… Well I was in Florida for four years. About a year and a half ago there was a hurricane before the hurricane Harvey and it was right after Harvey. There was Irma hurricane and it was actually headed towards Naples which actually damages came up to like $350 billion or something like that in damages. So I left before the hurricane got there because it was already starting to get like very ugly weather wise, it was raining and restaurants weren’t doing very good because of that was not a whole lot of tourism coming in because of the same reason for the hurricane. And then at that point I was just like I can either stay or I can go somewhere else. And I figured, well it’s already been like 12 years, so how about go see my family?

Javier I: They hadn’t seen me and they were always like, “When are you coming back?” And my friends were like, “When are you coming back?” And I was like, “Well, I don’t know. I don’t want to tell you something because I don’t want to lie to you. I can tell you that two years, I can tell you the three months. But I don’t know. I don’t want to anybody to have expectations for that.” So, I’ve been here in Mexico for about a year and a half now since the hurricane. Yeah. And I didn’t tell anybody. Actually that day, the very last day when I was there, my chef, he was always straightforward with me and I was always straightforward with him. And one day he told me, he’s like “Hey Tony, are you coming in today?” I’m like, “No Chef.” It’s like, “Okay, take the day off.”

Javier I: And then the next day he’s like, “Are you coming in today?” And I was like, “You know what chef, honestly I just want to thank you very much for everything, all of your support everything that you’ve taught me, your friendship most important. But I think it’s time for me to go.” And we had already had like multiple conversations about different things that I wanted to do in life. So I told him, I said, “You know what, I’m just going to go, I want to thank you very much for everything you’ve been one of the greatest mentors I’ve ever had and I really appreciate you. But I think it’s time for me to go though. It’s time for me to look for something new and something different.” I told him at that time I was going to look into working at a cruise as a chef and he’s like, “You should definitely do that because you’re young, you’re single, you have all the time right now in your life and I can bet you for that. You should definitely do that.”

Javier I: At first he got mad when I told him I was done. He’s like “No, you are not.” I’m like, “Yeah, I’m done. I’m going to go see my family in Mexico.” He’s like, “Okay, you are right. You need to go see your family. It’s going to be good for you.”

Interviewer: So we have to finish up. So where do you live in Mexico now?

Javier I: Right now I live in Mesa Coahuila.

Interviewer: Which is Mexico City?

Javier I: Literally it’s like Mexico City is right here. And Mesa is like right here. There’s a little border in between. It’s the State though.

Interviewer: And who do you live with now?

Javier I: By myself.

Interviewer: Have you studied anything since you’ve been back?

Javier I: I did finish my high school here. I came back and I actually got my certificates for that and I just also received my certificate for English in the laboral environment or something like that. I actually got 99.7% out of a 100 point. So like almost perfect score on that.

Interviewer: Fantastic.

Javier I: So I did that and I did finish my high school and now I’m looking into maybe getting somewhere else. Because honestly, academically speaking, I want to get a PhD in something.

Interviewer: Really?

Javier I: Yeah, I like all kinds of things, especially with quantum physics is like one of my favorites and I love everything Physics, quantum theory, quantum physics, quantum mechanics, everything that is like out there, all the little stuff and all the big stuff.

Javier I: I like that, I like to think that.

Javier I: It’s the very nature of life in Physics.

Javier I: I like multiple things to though. I like Math, but like Physics is the one that like gets my mind out there like down the rabbit hole and is like what else is out there?

Interviewer: So when you were in the States you didn’t want to study but when you’ve gotten back here now you want to do a PhD?

Javier I: When I was in the States I tried, I tried, I did try multiple times but I could never get a scholarship, I could never get into any school, I never had the time. Right now I thought it was going to be harder here in Mexico, but I think it’s actually going to be easier for me to do that. And actually I was thinking maybe to move to Canada in about a year or two, I also continue with my studies. I do want to cook for a living though because I developed like such a great passion for it. Don’t get me wrong, but cooking is also chemistry because you’re mixing one item with one ingredient and another and then you’re getting somersaults. You’re mixing raw eggs with mustard and then you’re adding oil and all of a sudden it’s mayo. That’s what I like. That’s why I like physics too because it’s like that you do one thing with another and like what you know, like opposite reactions. I just, I love science honestly. I’d love science. Like to the day I die.

Interviewer: But you’re an artist too because you’re a chef.

Javier I: I also do drawings though.

Interviewer: Do you do drawings?

Javier I: Yeah, you want to see one?

Interviewer: Yes.

Javier I: I have one right here. This one is very intricate. It doesn’t really mean anything, but it is the perspective that I gave it is that two dimensions a figure that becomes a three-dimensional figure in a one-dimensional paper actually it’s like that. From here to here and then you can see all dimensions, but it’s just one dimension in a two-dimensional figure that makes it a three-dimensional figure.

Javier I: I love drawing too though. But cooking is like the best for me and I just like a lot of different things because like I said at the beginning, I get really, I get bored easily so I just… Something that gets my attention but something that is actually interesting not just like that and not just fun or something that actually makes my brain work. Something that gets a perspective.

Interviewer: You’ve worked in Mexico too since you’ve been back?

Javier I: Yeah, I tried working as a chef too, but there’s almost no appreciation here. There is appreciation for the food but not for the people that makes it interesting.

Interviewer: Interesting.

Javier I: They offer me very little money for very long days, six days a week. Almost 12 hours a day and we’re talking about like 7000 Pesos. I was like, no. I do want to cook but I don’t want to kill myself trying to try to cook and trying to make ends meet because-

Interviewer: And do you feel safe in Mexico?

Javier I: I’ve never actually felt not safe. I think that the people that doesn’t feel safe is because… Well honestly I think under the Murphy’s Law, whatever you call is whatever you will attract. So if you’re thinking that you’re going to get robbed, you’re probably going to get robbed because you’re already looking scared enough. So you’re already giving clues. Normally, if you walk like… If you try to blend, like I always do on every environment, then nothing ever happens.

Interviewer: have you been a victim of a violent crime?

Javier I: I’ve been robbed once or twice here in Mexico, nothing major. I’ve never got in hit or like messed up or beat up or anything like that. And that’s it though. I never really get like any verbal aggressions anymore.

Interviewer: And do you feel more vulnerable as somebody, as a migrant as a returning migrant?

Javier I: A little bit because the people right here, this is still very close minded just as I remember when I left and it’s kind of hard. It’s not as hard as it was before because nowadays there’s a little more diversity in general. Like you can actually see… Yesterday I saw a couple of gay guys and they were kissing on the Metro, right? That was something that at least a year ago, if you see something like that, it was still like, what the fuck are you doing? Why are you doing it here in public or something like that? But I looked at them and I was like, well good for you. Like stand your ground or do whatever it is you’re going to do. In my perspective in life has always been anyone and everyone. Absolutely anyone and everyone can do whatever they want regardless of what the law says or regardless of what anyone says, as long as that does not affect or impact anybody else in a negative way.

Javier I: So, for example, if I want to do drugs and they’re not affecting my family and they’re not affecting you and they’re actually not even affecting my job or anything, then why couldn’t I? Or like if you like doing ballet or if you are like doing repelling or if you like listening to music very loud or whatever it is that you like. If you’re gay then you can be gay. Just don’t affect anybody else on a negative impact. Like little kids, like don’t tell them what to do because at some point they will create their own opinion of what they want. But you have to let them, it’s not like, you have to be gay, oh you have to be straight. No you have to create your own opinion and then decide what you want as long as it doesn’t affect anybody else.

Interviewer: To finish up — Do you think you’d return to the United States someday?

Javier I: Yeah, probably.

Interviewer: Why?

Javier I: Because, when I was thinking about doing the cruises, the first thing that they told me is that I needed to get a Visa and a passport from the US. So if I actually want to do that at some point I will have to step into US territory and I will actually require that. But for me, that me that I want to go somewhere, I think I’ve already experienced what I wanted to. Maybe I’ll go to New York just to check it out. I would probably just go, but like vacation-wise.

Interviewer: To visit.

Javier I: I wouldn’t probably visit even my family. I would just go to places and get to know them.

Interviewer: And why wouldn’t you return to live there?

Javier I: Because I want to experience other parts of the world. It’s not that I hate it because I don’t. I feel there’s more World out there that I haven’t yet explored. And I want to go to Japan and I want to go to Canada and I want to go to Brazil and I want to go to Germany and I just want to go everywhere. I like meeting people, I like meeting cultures.

Interviewer: What a fantastic story. Thank you so much.

Javier I: Thank you.

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