Francisco I

Mexico City, Mexico
Francisco I
June 8, 2019

Interviewer: To start, could you tell me a bit about your earliest memories?

Frank: (Laughs). I don’t know. I guess the earliest memories I have were at school. I believe it was A___ Elementary, I believe it was kindergarten. I remember this big, tall teacher at the time, and then the play area. Then afterward I believe we moved from a house. My childhood wasn’t that much of a child’s life. You know, I saw a lot of things. That’s pretty much it.

Interviewer: Where were you?

Frank: Most of the time in my childhood years I was in South LA. South Central.

Interviewer: When you say your childhood wasn’t much of a childhood, in the traditional sense. What do you mean by that?

Frank: Just like— domestic violence and stuff like that.

Interviewer: Was that your dad, or?

Frank: My dad. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Interviewer: And then— is your family stay together, or?

Frank: Yes. I mean even— even up to now, as we speak, my parents are still together. I guess they managed to… I guess at that time they were still managing stability when we were young because, I mean, we had a roof over our heads, but it was more like, you know, furniture, beds, you know, each individual kid with their own bed or their own room. It was a more of a crowded situation. So I’m assuming it was tough for my dad and mom and I believe that sometimes you can— you can teach your kids what you know but if you don’t get no education, what can you teach? So I guess they, they went as they learned, so it was tough so that’s why my childhood wasn’t… I’m not complaining about it, but yeah, it was somewhat.

Interviewer: Where did you like to go? Were there any places like the school, or did you do any sports?

Frank: I remember I used to sit down and draw a lot. And I don’t know, for whatever reason I used to always get in trouble at school. I always had after school detention but then when I got to the age of 13, 14 I believe, I started boxing. So I was there for a couple of years.

Interviewer: Boxing?

Frank: Yeah I was an amateur. I went to S___ in 2004 I believe.

Interviewer: How did you get into boxing?

Frank: My brother.

Interviewer: Is he a really good boxer?

Frank: Nah he got into a relationship at an early age so he—he remembered his childhood life and he mentioned one time that he didn’t want to have— he didn’t want me to have the same life. He wanted me to have different opportunities or see a different pattern so he taught me boxing.

Interviewer: Did you go to tournaments?

Frank: Oh, yeah. Yeah at times it was outdoor tournaments like at parks somewhere, like at gyms.

Interviewer: Is the Golden Gloves a thing?

Frank: It’s like an open tournament but that one was in the Merano Casino.

Interviewer: Was boxing a way to stay out of trouble or get some of your energy and anger or whatever?

Frank: Maybe to stay busy or maybe start developing a different mentality.

Interviewer: Like what kind of mentality?

Frank: Maybe not just stay at home and not do nothing.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: So more like a distraction or maybe like get to meet new people, see other faces, and it was cool. It was a good experience.

Interviewer: What was your friend group like? What did you like to do?

Frank: I was more like a solo kind of kid at the time. Even now. I’ve done some programs throughout life that helped me to kind of get out of my shell, but I never really had a group of friends and the type of people I used to hang around with were more like troublemakers.

Interviewer: Oh, like—

Frank: Like gang bangers, stuff like that, yeah.

Interviewer: I’d love to hear your thoughts on it and why you think that may be occurring?

Frank: I believe that there’s not a lot of youth centers to keep the kids busy. Now, I mean— Once I turned 21, 22, 23, there’s been a lot of changing within the community but right there within my area, where I grew up, there’s maybe one that I remember. Yeah. I guess what happens is, like I said, our parents or that generation, they, they pick up life as they go. They learn as what their experiences come about and nobody has ever maybe introduced a new type of life, you know, to sit down and open up a book or even take a class for self-control or even anger management. So I think that’s pretty much it, what happens. Most of the time either out there… I never knew what life was here until I came and it’s difficult so I just imagine my parents with five kids at the time. So I’m— I’m assuming, I know it’s pretty difficult so them moving out there and still not being able to have that stability as they wished, you know, trying to hide from the cops and stuff like that, not being able to get arrested or not being familiarized with the area.

Frank: So my childhood years I remember that my mom used to work, my dad used to work and to be honest, I never— I don’t have no memories of sitting down and actually doing homework with my parents. I don’t have that. Or even playing ball with my dad or, I don’t know, maybe sitting down and getting a hug. I guess they were always too busy so I think that could have led into the type of environment that I hang around with. So I was more like an isolated kid so the ones that— I started hanging out with was the wrong people.

Interviewer: What age was that? When you…

Frank: When I started hanging around with them?

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: It was around the same time that I actually started boxing but it was like my getaway because nobody knew that I used to box. Nobody. And then I stopped boxing when I was, I believe, 17. That’s when I actually got a girlfriend and I graduated high school and then I started drinking. Started going out. I didn’t want to go to college. I started but I never knew that there was a fee waiver or even sat down and took extra classes to be smarter or have the opportunity to learn faster. Like at times, I notice that I have a hard time retaining stuff. I’ve got to practice a lot or I’ve got to go over the information so I can be able to remember it. But at the time I remember my mom mentioned something really important, she said, you want to go to school or you want to work? So I wanted to go to school at the time but I— I couldn’t tell my mom. I know you can’t afford it so what are you going to do?

Frank: So my brother got me into a job and then that’s pretty much it. I didn’t continue college.

Interviewer: Did you want to study anything specific?

Frank: I wanted to study law school.

Interviewer: Oh really?

Frank: I wanted to get into law school. Your experience in prison— you’re able to understand that, yes there’s a lot of crime and there’s a lot bad choices, but then there’s a lot of misunderstandings within the process. You know what I mean? Especially with immigration. But then I guess I chose to live the wrong experience first, within the bad side… (Laughs). I would have loved to study law school or maybe a trade.

Interviewer: Could you tell me a bit about what led to your imprisonment and then maybe your experience?

Frank: I picked up the wrong information… I remember I never had a driver’s license because we weren’t allowed to have a driver’s license. And even for the simple fact that once we were able to obtain our driver’s license, back in 2015 early 16s, there was going to be an identification for immigrants. So I think that wasn’t fair. You know, I mean I do understand that we’re not part of the States. I’m not going to say we make the country better because we’re not going to make any place any better if we don’t educate ourselves in general depending on the area where you live. But then again it wasn’t fair. I did have a legal job, I did have a legal social security number, but then again I tried to do my taxes, I tried to pay my tickets, my infractions, you know, trying to live an American life.

Frank: So with that misinformation the end of the day, we’re still not part of the States. So it’s not that we’re not treated fairly but then again that misinformation comes from my dad. He should have educated himself and— and seek for an opportunity to legalize, not just himself but us as a second generation. So that’s why I think that was his mistake. And then when I was in prison I started reading a little bit as to how I can fight my case. I believe that I was at a 8 out of 10 to have an opportunity, but then again, the federal attorney, she just blew me off. Like I did courses, I took my time to have a different mentality. Even before I went to prison I started changing my life, I started changing bad habits.

Interviewer: So when you say you went to prison, it was for a car accident and somebody was injured?

Frank: No, it was mostly because I have three DUIs.

Interviewer: Oh, okay.

Frank: Like I said, when I was growing up I was an isolated kid so there wasn’t much of an expression, there wasn’t much of a, “I need help” or “I don’t know how to do this” or “I’m afraid.” You know? Mostly us growing up as men in, in, in a Hispanic tradition is like, men don’t cry. You’ve got to be tough, you’ve got to deal with it and so on so forth. So at the time, I had a lot of problems with you know, the mother of my kids for the same reason, I kind of followed the same pattern unconsciously.

Interviewer: Same pattern as…?

Frank: As… getting somebody pregnant. (Laughs). You know?

Interviewer: How old were you?

Frank: I was 19.

Interviewer: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And she was…?

Frank: 16. Mm-hmm (affirmative). So then again it wasn’t like I was given the impression that you’ve got to go to school first. It was more like, well you want— you want to work, or you want to pay rent.

Frank: And that happened. So me having problems with my kid’s mom kind of elevated everything and it escalated from one thing to another. Next thing I was using drugs so I got the first DUI and then within a year I violated my probation and then within those few years I violated for controlled substance so it was— it was like I was running away from my own life. On the third time, I wasn’t drunk, but my alcohol level was above normal. I wasn’t… I— when I say misinformation as well, a good example is that on that traffic violation I, I hit a pedestrian… I hit a pedestrian.

Frank: Thanks to God, he didn’t die. I didn’t run away, I stood there, I… we called the ambulance, I waited for the cops, I did the sobriety test. I don’t remember if I passed it or not, I would say I did but because I had a RAS 22, that’s what created an impact so they pulled out the breathalyzer.

Frank: I didn’t know I had the right to reject it at the time. I don’t remember the [breathalyzer] level but once I hit the station, within 20 minutes or 30 minutes apart, it changed dramatically so that was my attorney’s statement and that was the argument because they wanted to give me eight years. And so eight years is a long time so I ended up doing two years and a couple of months so by me not knowing all that information, I’m not going to say I didn’t do… because I did— I did do wrong, you know? But maybe I could have had a different opportunity of me not being here. Maybe I could have walked away with some community service or some county time.

Frank: I would have managed the situation differently. Another example, maybe I’m wrong, but now that I understand is that even cops in LA or in the States they’re not even able to search a car…

Frank: So stuff like that is that I’m barely learning and then educating myself is like… people need to know just randomly, not just Hispanic but people from other cultures. So by me looking at YouTube and by me reading books, studying my case, there’s a lot of legal information that people’s not aware of.

Interviewer: Did you know that you were then going to be deported or did this just come afterwards?

Frank: It came afterwards. It came within about a year and a half of my state prison time. I got interviewed. I didn’t give up I still tried to look for opportunities to kind of impress the judge at the time, you know? But then again it wasn’t enough. I mean the judge, he said I do qualify for voluntary departure meaning that within three years I can actually open up a case and have a better opportunity, but me having to leave on deportation for 10 years, it— it kind of reserves the option that I have. So in other words I’ve got to wait 10 years and still try but it’s not going to be… I lost a lot of… I lost a good chance.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: You know, for voluntary departure, you have— you have the opportunity to still fight it regardless but a legal deportation is like they’re literally kicking you out.

Interviewer: And you didn’t choose the voluntary departure? Or—

Frank: I didn’t qualify for it.

Interviewer: Oh you didn’t qualify because of the past things?

Frank: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Interviewer: Could you tell me a bit about just actually being deported?

Frank: On a bus. Obviously, it’s like… I mean, I’m not saying they should— they should treat us better, (laughs), but it’s like— it’s like we’re moving from— from prison to another prison.

Interviewer: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Frank: They chained us up with our legs and in our waist and they put us in a county bus or in a state bus and then once we hit the road, they make us sit there, they make us wait for a couple of hours and then, I don’t know, they take their time.

Frank: And sometimes they can be rude but then again I do understand that they should not treat us nice, you know, maybe they stereotype we don’t belong in their country but then again that doesn’t stop us from being humans. And, I mean, it is what it is. So I’m— I’m trying to adapt here. It’s hard but it’s not impossible.

Frank: But within the process, I learned that in life, it takes time.

Interviewer: Can you tell me a bit about what it was like when you first came to Mexico? What surprised you? What was difficult?

Frank: Just the whole picture in general?

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: It’s like it was dirty. (Laughs). Like the way it smells. How people treat you. Like I learned a lot of different things in prison. You know there’s prison rules? One of the things that caught my attention was you can’t just walk in front of people and just literally just jump over their feet, you’ve got to say excuse me, you know? And right here my first experience was, I was at the metro station I— I remember and I kept on letting everybody go in and my auntie was like don’t be dumb, you’ve got to push them and I was like, why? And then once I started noticing how people get around, it’s like, God, it’s difficult. It’s difficult. They treat you… you know, it’s— I don’t know, there’s a lot of pushing and shoving here. There’s a lot of… at every corner they’re either selling stuff or they want you to be part of something.

Frank: It’s like everywhere you go, it looks the same because it’s the same, there’s a lot of trash, there’s a lot of… I mean there’s a lot of cars out here but I see more public transportation than regular cars and what I don’t understand is that, if there’s enough public transportation, why is every time every station full?

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: Like there’s no space, you don’t have… you’re invading my privacy. You know, that’s… disgusting in a way.

Interviewer: Yeah it’s just overwhelming.

Frank: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. I try to apply for credit and I don’t have no background.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: The job opportunities are limited. They ask you for a lot of scholarships, educations and I mean I’m 31, I never went to college or finished a career out there so by me trying to regain study, by the time I’m finished I lose my opportunity. Because once you hit 40 over here, it’s like your opportunities are shut down. So I’m concerned about that because I’m 31 and time is going to go by quickly. Next thing you know, I’m going to be 40 where I’m going to be at? That concerns me.

Frank: And… when I used to work at an aerospace company, I never thought of actually educating myself in computers. I didn’t touch a computer until like, what, almost, what, 13, 14, 15 years after high school. So it was hard.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: And I’m still learning, you know? And it’s hard. (Laughs).

Interviewer: Yeah. It’s a whole new skill set.

Frank: Sometimes I feel like a dummy. (Interviewer laughs).

Interviewer: Are you able to contact your kids at all?

Frank: Nah, there’s a lot of misunderstandings. Actually yesterday I had one of the worst days within the last few months.

Interviewer: With the ladies?

Frank: Yeah with their mom.

Interviewer: Oh, with their mom.

Frank: I was asleep, here it was at two— two in the morning, I was asleep. So I received a text and I never— I never heard it, then I heard my phone ringing, so, you know, I got the long hearing process, I was able to hear it so I look at my phone and it’s my daughter’s number and I was like, what if something happened. So I started thinking and then I started, (laughs), I don’t know, maybe being too dramatic, so I was like maybe I should give them a call. So, and then she picked up and then she was like, can we talk? And I was like, yeah.

Frank: But I thought something had happened to my kids,

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: And she just started going off on me and I’m like, I’m asleep, I’ve got to wake up early tomorrow, can’t we just talk later? And then she just started approaching me in a negative way, that emotionally I’m losing my kids, that do I know that Father’s Day is coming up? I was like, yeah. She’s like, what do you think the letter is going to go to? Because she had somebody over there. And then she was like, to him, and I was like, well I don’t care. You don’t know?

Interviewer: Kind of just like hurtful things just to…

Frank: Yeah. And she kept on blaming me.

Interviewer: For what?

Frank: Because I left the house. I left the house.

Interviewer: What happened back in the States, then?

Frank: What happened with her?

Interviewer: What happened with her, and— yeah, your kids.

Frank: Well, we got— we got together at an early age. At a real early age. So—

Interviewer: You said 19 and 16?

Frank: Mm-hmm (affirmative), so none of us could ever imagine having the same exp…well actually having an experience itself. So you cannot say you love somebody at 19 in comparison to when you educate yourself to what really feelings are. So my whole perspective in life has changed. So now that I look back, it’s like we got together I guess just to be responsible. So a lot of misunderstandings. She wasn’t able to listen and understand and I wasn’t able to listen and understand. So two different worlds just collapsed. For me, trying to be there for my kids, another kid came around, more problems, another kid came around and then once I— once I was like, you know what, it’s— we’re not going to go anywhere, so I was like, it’s better for the kids to— to see us separated than see us together.

Frank: It took me a long time to understand that, so once I decided to just leave the house, she was just like, oh you left me with the kids and you know, stuff like that. So I guess she hasn’t forgotten me.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: Or forgiven me for that, but then again it’s like… I think it was the best.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: I had a relapse. And the reason why I stood with her for so long is because my mom doesn’t know her dad, so I had a lot of principles within that. I try to— I have two sisters that have kids and they’re single moms. So it’s like the same pattern that’s going through, through my family so I was trying to make a difference. Unfortunately, it didn’t work out for me at all. And, yeah, I left the house about eight months, after I got in prison. So and then I got deported so I haven’t seen my kids, right now for almost a year and two months.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: You know, so… and then whenever she feels like it, she pays money on the phone and stuff like that. I mean, you know, just negative— negative comments…

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: So she’s trying to bring me down, she’s trying to interfere with what I’m trying to do out here because she knows that me, as a father, I will pretty much do everything for the kids. But then again, I’m not going to try to risk— risk it going back and being in prison and then still being by myself. So I think it’s not worth it. It’s not worth it at all. It hurts and I have the hardest time dealing with it but then I guess people move on.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: It’s like she told me, you don’t care about the kids. I was like, people move on. I’m not going to sit here and fight with you that the kids already have a father because I’m their father. They have a step-father. You know, so… and then she was like…she mentioned something important that, even though that— that he tries to treat them nice and stuff like that, I mean I guess the, the interaction my kids have with him is not the same. So I felt good about that because at the end of the day, it’s like, even though my kids are young, but they’re smart. They will never forget.

Frank: So I keep that in mind. That’s why I was like, you know what, I’m not going to argue with you. I appreciate the fact that you called me but have a good night. I just left it at that. She called me again and— and I didn’t answer. So I already know I’m going to lose contact with my kids for another six months, for another year, for another two, three years. So, I mean, I’m aware about the— the consequences.

Frank: I think that’s been one of the most— most devastating situations for me, you know, and then coming here and having nobody to talk to, at times. Especially with the simple fact that, I don’t know, I guess this is much of a macho world here and I don’t know, just… people have different upbringings.

Frank: You have guys that have pregnant women still living with their mom. Be independent, bro. And you see that a lot out here. Or you see that two, three families living in one house, it’s like, come on. So I don’t know who to blame. Either them for their lack of knowledge or the government for the lack of opportunity. So it goes vice versa, you don’t know where to stand. And it’s not who to blame but how to take action. So by me having a different culture, different point of view in life, it’s complicated for me.

Interviewer: Yeah. I mean you’re the first person I’ve talked to who have even brought up the macho culture…

Frank: Yeah.

Interviewer: … and I think it’s a really big part of kind of like why there are people who having kids so young because they feel like they have to fit the certain role—

Frank: Yeah.

Interviewer: —or stereotype as a man and I mean you’re the first… I think that’s really, really important to point out, too. Have you… who do you have those conversations with?

Frank: Nobody.

Interviewer: How did you come to them on your own, or?

Frank: I like to read.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: I started educating myself when I was on the streets. Unfortunately, I had a relapse and I noticed that my problem was co-dependency and then at the time I was emotionally unstable because I didn’t, I guess I didn’t have the education to overcome the situation or how to handle the situation at the time. So I just— I guess I had a tornado of emotions. So those emotions impacted my character, who I was. It made me act like a fool, you know, take— take the wrong decisions, drinking, drugs. So one thing led to another. So— and I used to feel uncomfortable speaking about that but now. Now it’s like all you’ve got to do, the best help in life, psychology help you that can get, just ventilate. Because in reality nobody is going to come and do nothing for you. You’ve got to stand up and do what you’ve got to do.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: So, I guess the best motivation that I could ever receive was myself. Sit down and read. And… But then again I cannot have these types of conversations with people out here. I really can’t.

Interviewer: Yeah. Have you tried, or?

Frank: No, because body language tells you one thing and then the way you express yourself. The words that you use in your everyday life can say somewhat about a person, But yeah, I don’t have these conversations with nobody.

Interviewer: I definitely think, especially with a more macho culture, vulnerability is seen as such a bad thing.

Frank: Yeah.

Frank: I know I picked up the drinking part again. I’m working on that, I’m not going to lie. I know that my… I only lived with my relatives for about six months and then after I just looked for my own place. It was a lot of criticism as to, get over it, get over it, you know, stop drinking. I know drinking is not— it’s not a getaway in general, it’s not going to make things any better but then again who am I going to sit down and speak to or ventilate this that is not going to judge or is not even going to… I mean in general I’m not asking for an opinion. I’m not. But then again it’s like, okay, you start expressing yourself, there’s— there’s a difference between a belief, your opinion and, and what you really… a decision that you’ve got to make in life. So within the conversation, to their ears it’s just nothing but complaining, when it’s not, when it’s not. Just to come and see that there’s a lot of necessity out here but nobody wants to do nothing about it. It’s weird.

Interviewer: Do you think with this different mentality is just partially because you grew up in the US or where do you feel like, that just came from you being sort of an individual in high school, or where do you think that stems from?

Frank: I guess when I actually… what was it? When I started going to AA, they talk about this, you know, this image or whatever you want to make your God or whatever, introduced me to the Bible and then from the Bible, I started reading, I started getting interesting into what the real values are in life, or the principles. And then I started doing a lot of self-acknowledgment. So when I had the relapse, it just, it just shattered me, it just broke me in pieces. So it’s not the same where— where you hang out, you do drugs, you drink. When you— when you see yourself in— in prison, or in a bed by yourself and you’ve got to come to your senses, And then right there you’ve got the option to either straighten up your life or be a screw-up for the rest of your life.

Frank: So I decided, you know, to start taking programs, so that changed my mentality. That helped me a lot, but then again I guess practice, I lost practice within what I learned.

Interviewer: Is this AA in the US or Mexico?

Frank: No, US.

Interviewer: In the US?

Frank: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Interviewer: Do you— have you found any programs… are there any programs here in Mexico?

Frank: Yes.

Interviewer: There are?

Frank: Yeah but actually for me, AA was like a stepping stone because I wasn’t going to be… like you said, I figured out that I was more like a co-dependent—

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: —so I figured I was always going to be there and I was going to be stuck. So now that I notice that it was a stepping-stone, I like to— I like to research, I like to read, I like to look for other options.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: But it’s hard. Sometimes I find it difficult because I don’t talk to nobody. It’s like, where do I go? Where am I going to go? What if I get lost?

Interviewer: What do you… if you were still in the US, what would you like to be doing? Or what do you think you’d be doing?

Frank: Me?

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: Actually when I got here, I got in contact with my co-workers and my previous boss and he mentioned, whenever you’re ready to come, you’ll have your job. Because I was taking some courses, some individual courses for HVAC. So I wanted— I actually did plan out my life but then like you said, when I just hit immigration and just like, you’re being deported, I— everything just completely just changed.

Interviewer: Yeah, that second chance.

Frank: Mm-hmm (affirmative). That second chance. I kind of gave up on life again. So it’s been a long year, it’s been a long journey but yeah, maybe I would, I would see… maybe reconciliation with my kids, not with the mom, definitely not with the mom. You know, with the kids maybe, have a better job, moving out of the LA area, maybe going more closer to where the company was or, you know, even picking up back at school. Now that I knew that it was, you know, like, a fee waiver or something like that. Maybe I would have looked into more economic education, I mean in general. Like I have a 401(k) out there. I just got my paper so I’m trying to figure out if I can actually reset my password, open up my account and bring that money over. I want to invest.

Interviewer: So you have a 401(k) over there, to figuring out your papers now, to hopefully get that? Yeah.

Frank: Yeah. But the again, it’s like… okay, once I left the house, she fought for custody, full custody. So I’m assuming that I have pending child support for that simple fact. I took some money out to help out my parents at the time, from my 401(k) and obviously it’s been years, I haven’t done my taxes. It’s been— what, three years, four years since I got locked up and the previous year I wasn’t able… she had already taken all the information. She actually went and picked up my paperwork and cashed my last income tax. So, it was bad, but anyways yeah, there’s a lot pending stuff that I… that I’m thinking I’m not going to be able to do anything with that 401(k). It’s not a lot of money but then, you know, investing in stocks and stuff like that, I could make my— my retirement from that.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: Than just sitting at home, doing a computer and investing.

Interviewer: Absolutely.

Interviewer: Do you hope to go back to the States one day, or?

Frank: I hope—but then… I’ve got to be self-centered and I’ve got to be realistic. It’s going to be difficult. So, one year has already gone by, I got nine— nine years left, what’s going to happen then? I’m not going to be on the bus all the time. I’m not going to be in a call center for nine years. And those type of things are the ones that I be thinking. What— what am I really going to do? Right now I put my mind into, you know, saving money so I can get a car. Get a car and then look for a part time, just— just work meanwhile, until I actually figure out exactly what am I going to do.

Frank: And if I have an opportunity to go back to school, and what career because I’m— I can’t be wasting time no more.

Interviewer: Yeah. Right. As you get older—

Frank: And then everybody here, there’s acquaintances, there’s people you, you come across, but everybody drinks. Everybody’s not like, hey let’s go eat, or let’s go look into a school. Everybody’s like, hey where the beers at? Where the beers at? And it’s common here. I’ve got to find, I guess, new, better positive people to come across.

Interviewer: Just some closing reflection questions that we like to add. I’m going to just double check—

Frank: Nothing emotional right?

Interviewer: No, no I mean—

Frank: I don’t want to cry anymore (Laughs).

Interviewer: Do you consider yourself more from here, from Mexico or do you consider yourself more from the United States?

Frank: Not at all. From LA.

Interviewer: Yeah. Do you feel American then, or?

Frank: Not necessarily American. I feel rejected out there as well, for the simple fact that I guess my skin color and for the wrong choices, me having tattoos. I actually— I actually tried to do laser removal on this one. When I was in prison.

Interviewer: You tried it, did it work, or?

Frank: Nah I didn’t have enough time because that was in county, so once I hit state they didn’t have that opportunity. And why do I feel more like I belong out there? Maybe because I— I was raised out there. I have different traditions. Everything is just different. I have my kids out there, my job. It was funny though because right here they’re 10 years behind with air conditioner installation. They still work with the flat screwdrivers. You know, out there I had my Impax, I had my drills, I had my tool bits, I had everything. My scissors for cutting sheet metals, everything. And right here it’s just working with screwdrivers, flat screwdrivers, what am I doing? (Laughs).

Frank: And then they don’t give you money for bus, no insurance. Right here you don’t work for hours, right here you work for a day. You can work, I don’t know, $20 a day and you’ve still got to put in the work. So it’s… I get paid a little bit more just sitting down and having conversations over the phone with people. It’s not my type of job, it’s not my— my field, but what can I do.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: What can I do. I guess I’ve got to grow in that computer skills and I don’t know, take a course or something, communication.

Interviewer: Yeah. I feel like you have that natural curiosity and will to achieve, continue to better yourself and stuff. So hopefully use that.

Frank: It’s going to be a long journey. (Laughs).

Interviewer: What do you think the Mexican government can do to help returning migrants? Do you think they’re doing anything?

Frank: That was a good question. It covers a lot of perspectives. It really does. I guess taking into consideration that we’ve never been here or the absence that we have within the state. I mean, in reality, most of the people that come from the States, they’re at call centers. In reality. You know, job opportunities and I don’t know, because I tried to go the army, you know, out there. I tried to apply for the Marines.

Interviewer: In the US?

Frank: In the US but because I didn’t have a green card, I didn’t have a social, I wasn’t able to do it. And out there I— I wanted to be a… you know, get a career. And here I tried to do the same thing but it’s too late, I’m— I’m either too old, and right here they ask you for a profession. They don’t want tattoos. That opportunity is lost.

Interviewer: The stereotypes that…

Frank: Yeah, like— here first you’ve got to be…you’ve got to go to school, you’ve got to have at least a university and then go to the Marines. I don’t know, I just don’t understand.

Interviewer: Why did you want to join the marines in the US?

Frank: Why?

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: Because they travel. They have more— more opportunities to see different cultures, different… I don’t know, I guess I really want… I noticed that, I don’t know, you’ve got to, you’ve got to look beyond the point of your nose at times. So if you don’t reach out then you’re never going to know. You know, there’s… the world is rich, there’s a lot things in the world, and I just know what, three miles away from my neighborhood? How ignorant do you think I can be? You know what I mean? I can be, what, 40, 50, 60 and I’m only going to be able to know, what, three miles away from my neighborhood? I don’t think it’s fair. I think… I don’t blame my dad but I think he should have planned or looked ahead, at least.

Interviewer: Yeah. Absolutely.

Frank: Yeah. But I mean, it is what it is. We make mistakes and we’ve got to move on.

Interviewer: Yeah. I mean another thing, a trend we’re seeing is, especially people who are undocumented in the US, maybe they make a mistake and when they’re younger or they kind of swept up in whatever’s going on in their neighborhood. And because of the way the justice system is, it’s because— and because of their undocumented status, there’s really no chance for a second opportunity, even if there’s that motivation. People change so much from the age of like 11 to like 25, that window, you’re a completely different person and I feel like the governments don’t really accommodate, or see that people can change in those ways and be different.

Frank: I remember when I was in that drug addiction, I tried to look for rehab information, you know, a place where I could better myself and if I didn’t have what it was, it’s not welfare, GR, government money? If you didn’t have that card, you’re not accepted. So I was like, what is that? What if you’re literally dying? In prison they have reinstating programs. I signed up to a couple of them but then again, for what, if I wasn’t going to be part of it? They got halfway homes, they got opportunities, they got it made…and they still keep on screwing up. I think that if I— if I would have gone to prison straight from the beginning, I think my life would have been different because I would have seen exactly what my path was going to be. But since I always had the opportunity to pay bail, pay an attorney, you know, I guess I didn’t learn from my mistakes and I kept on doing the same thing.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: So it took me that opportunity or that experience to go all the way to prison to really realize what life was about. You know, we’ve got guys that are coming down from different levels, that got 20, 19, 15 years. Big, old swollen guys that just sit down and cry. That changes your life. And they’ve still got a couple of years to go. You get to learn from those guys. And a lot of those guys are just left over like if they’re dead. No visits for years. That’s sad. I don’t want that life. But I guess that opportunity, that’s an opportunity that I got… I mean I’m free here.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: I mean I can’t complain. I’m breathing, I have a job, I have an opportunity to make some— a little bit of money. But it’s hard, it’s real hard. It’s real hard.

Interviewer: Before we wrap up, one more question. For those in the USA and in Mexico who may have preconceived ideas or maybe assumptions about migrants or people who are deported back to Mexico, is there anything that you think they should consider or do?

Frank: Probably not, I think— everything has been said and everything has been seen.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: I think it really depends on, on the individual and the motivation and how they get their impact as to how they see life and the way they want to live life.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: One thing that took me by surprise right here, a moped or you know, those street bikes, you have the one who’s driving and then you have the back passenger and then on top of that you got three kids, with no helmet. So that— that’s bad education, once they have the opportunity to go back to… I mean, travel to the States, they want to carry that bad habits so that’s why we get generalized or we get stereotyped. Everybody’s the same. I think that’s why in general, yeah there’s Central Americans, I’ve never been out there but in general, Mexicans itself, it’s like, ah, you’re Mexican. Or— or even the simple fact that they don’t use car seats here.

Frank: They got the little kids, they’re driving around, their head out the window, and they want to carry that negativity out there to the States and that points out a— a really important factor, Navigate that everybody is the same, everybody is not the same. And for those, those type of people it’s that, I understand, I mean… Donald Trump he’s, he’s not really a government well-spoken but he’s more an economic person of growth. He’s all about business and always this immigration, deportation, all this, you know, open immigration facilities, it’s all about money. It’s all about money. Who— who has not committed a crime? There’s guys that have never been to prison, they only got a traffic violation or driving without a driver’s license and that’s a good fact. That’s enough for Trump. You know what, you ain’t got no favors and you’re out. And that’s the saddest thing. I mean, I don’t feel bad as much for myself because I know I did wrong but what about those guys? What about those— those women, what about those kids? What happens then?

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: I mean it’s understandable for those that, like us, that, you know, we’ve been convicted. It’s fair enough. That’s the least that we could do, at least I didn’t spend my life behind bars. I think those little things are the ones that matter.

Interviewer: Yeah and I think that’s partially kind of the story we’re trying to tell, which is who are we deporting? Who are losing in the US and what are these assumptions that we’re making? On both sides of the border.

Frank: Yeah. Because even though I did— you know, I got convicted and stuff like that, I actually have my family send out my legal paperwork and pretty much all my tickets, all my traffic, all my DUIs, everything, has been completed. But then again it doesn’t matter, you did wrong and that’s it. End of story. It doesn’t matter whether I pay my dues, or whether I tried. The fact of the matter is you did wrong and that’s it, that’s all they care for.

Interviewer: Do you feel like that’s fair?

Frank: No.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Frank: That’s not fair at all. I mean, there’s a lot of gang bangers out there violating probation. There’s a lot of very negative guys that they come— they come in and out of prison. They been like that for, or randomly 15 years. I know guys my age that been out of prison and inside of prison fairly 10 times or even more. But it’s okay though because that’s, that’s their country.

Interviewer: Yeah it’s frustrating. I’m sure, in that way.

Frank: But then again, who told me to drive drunk, right?

Interviewer: Yeah. No, and I mean I kind of see how like maybe go back and forth where it’s just like, I’m not saying I’m perfect, I made mistakes, and… but one thing my professors taught me about is, it’s what I find also, what we both find really unfair and unjust, is people who have done all the tickets, spent the time in prison, learned from it, did all these… who, if they were US citizens, all these things that would show to the judge that they had changed and were trying and had a different philosophy and have matured from that point and then all of that, they’re about to leave, and then ICE is like this barrier right here and then all of that doesn’t matter because that second chance is blocked by deportation. And I think that’s also an important story to tell. I don’t think it’s the full picture to point out people who have never made a mistake, because there’s a lot of things, like you said, there’s not a lot of youth programs.

Interviewer: There aren’t things— there aren’t enough things I think the US government’s doing to also prevent that kind of cycle of mistakes in your childhood, to prison, and then either learning your experience or repeating it. I think that could be prevented a lot earlier too and I think those opportunities, you know what I mean?

Frank: Oh yeah, most definitely.

Interviewer: You kind of get what I’m saying?

Frank: Most definitely.

Interviewer: I just think, like it goes back to, kids are going to make mistakes and if they were US citizens, it would just be a mistake and they’d be able to have another opportunity and seek out those ways to get help if they wanted to and that just isn’t the case for people who are undocumented, and I think that that is inhumane and unfair.

Frank: Yeah. I mean they don’t care if you’ve got kids, they don’t care if you make a change, they don’t care if you went to programs. They don’t care about none of that.

Interviewer: Yeah. Is there anything you’d like to add, or you want people to know before we wrap up?

Frank: I’m still an American. Nah, I’m just playing. (Both laugh).

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