Cuauhtémoc I

Cuauhtémoc I

Male, Age 32

Came with family on a tourist visa at 7 seeking economic opportunity and family reunification

US college student; US occupation: event coordinator and promoter

Detained and deported at 22 for selling a controlled substance

Left behind: sister

Mexican occupation: call center worker

Mexico City, Mexico

Cuauhtémoc I

June 17th, 2018

Interviewer: How old were you when you went to the United States?

Cuauhtémoc: Six years old approximately. I don’t remember a precise date, it’s a little bit cloudy for me.

Interviewer: And how did you end up in the United States?

Cuauhtémoc: So initially my father was murdered cold-bloodily right before my second birthday. His death occurred on April 2nd, 1992. I was born on April 24th, 1990—we were actually just preparing for my second birthday. The murder occurred in the streets of Nezahualcóyotl. My father was a judicial. He was doing his job, he was arresting people left and right, doing his job quite well actually. He was excelling. He was a very good agent and it appears as though he was targeting drug-related criminals. So, he was murdered at gunpoint with a machine gun. I guess he was shot like eighty times. That led to the impulse of my mom wanting to leave. One, because my uncles from that side of the family didn’t want my mom to claim anything since we had a restaurant, we had like two, three homes, my dad had a few cars amongst other things, he had weapons machine guns and stuff like that.

Cuauhtémoc: So, they didn’t take my father’s death lightly. They actually wanted to take me away from her and I guess because they felt that she wasn’t apt to raise me since my father was basically the one paying for everything. My mom was taking care of business too, but she was mainly just there to take care of us. She didn’t really work at that time, so they’re like, “Hey, give him to us we’ll raise him.” Part of my family at the time was religious so they’re like, we will give him a better home. So my mom decided, hey, this is not happening, that’s my son and we’re leaving. So I was in second grade when this happened, of elementary school. We took off, I got a tourist visa and we left. My mom actually left before me. Why? The explanation I got from her was so that she can check out the situation first and not put me in any sort of danger. So basically I stayed with my aunt an extra year. She took off and by the time she felt stable, she called for me. So, that’s pretty much what happened.

Interviewer: And do you remember your first day in the United States?

Cuauhtémoc: I was disappointed because I felt it was going to be very different when in my perception it really wasn’t. Yeah, the streets were a little different, but I was expecting to see something more exotic like, “Oh wow, this crazy land of opportunity.” But in reality, it was pretty much the same.

Interviewer: And you went to school, right?

Cuauhtémoc: Yes. I went to school here for kindergarten and first and second grade. I was actually just finishing second grade here in Coyoacán… I actually went to second grade whilst my mom was over there and once I finished my second grade she’s like, “Hey, it’s time. I want my son here.”

Interviewer: And what was school like in the United States?

Cuauhtémoc: When I first got there, I had to make friends the hard way. Actually, my first weeks I got into fights because of the lack of speaking the language got me bullied pretty hard. It’s kind of sad and funny at the same time that in the street that I went to live, it was nothing but Mexican people. But the fact that I didn’t speak the language put me like as a subordinate. I’ve been considered an inferior because of like, “Yo, this dude doesn’t even speak English.” So that kind of made me a target, but I learned pretty quickly. I had to survive, I had to learn to survive the hard way. I had to become proficient at fighting to avoid getting beat up and that also fueled me in the sense that I pushed myself pretty hard in school just so I can catch up to the other kids.

Interviewer: Did you have any friends? Any teachers that you particularly remember that was influential?

Cuauhtémoc: Yeah, there was a family, and I made friends with the dude my age. I actually got in a fight with him first. Why? I can’t really remember why we fought, but after that fight—kind of like the fact that I stood toe to toe with him—he’s like, “Okay, I respect you now.” We got into a fight and his brother was like, “All right, this guy is a muchacho.” Funny that after the fight ended, I actually went back home to cry. I cried a lot because I’m like, “Dude I hate it here. I want to go back.” But the next day that same kid came and was looking for me, like, “Hey, let’s play.” I’m like, “Dude, we just fought.” And like, “Yeah, so what? Let’s play.” I’m like, “Okay.” So I felt accepted so yeah, I got introduced to his bigger brothers. He had a smaller brother and we just started playing and that kind of helped a lot break the ice, I guess, in a very violent way.

Interviewer: Do you have any particularly fond memories from that time?

Cuauhtémoc: Yeah, actually the street was a cul-de-sac so the fact that it was a cul-de-sac would mean that it would double as a baseball field and as a soccer field. We would play all sorts of games there. It was such a beautiful setup. All my neighbors were like, after that fight, they recognized me. So I was recognized by the entire street and I made a lot of friends very quickly.

Interviewer: And now if you’d have to pick what would you say was your best experience in the United States and what was the worst one?

Cuauhtémoc: School, college in particular.

Interviewer: The best or the worst?

Cuauhtémoc: The best by far. I’ve had so many amazing experiences in my community college. You grow up being told that a certain race is such a way. I had so many black friends, white friends, and Asian friends, and they were all super, super awesome. I don’t know if it’s just me, I don’t know if I just got lucky, but I had so much fun. 

Cuauhtémoc: I just had the most amazing time ever. I met Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Salvadorans. I mean oh my God, I remember going to this Guatemalan friend’s house—pupusas there [Sharp Exhale]. I just was eating and eating and his mom was just totally amazing. Well, actually I would have to say that high school was also super, super awesome due to the fact that just so much open-minded people. I mean you grow up with this, me personally, you grow up with this pride like, “Yo soy Mexicano,” and this and that, but you kind of humble down once you see your other Latino and the struggles that everybody goes through. When you grow up as a Mexican-American—I guess I’m not Mexican-American I’m Mexican—but you grow up seeing how your Honduran brothers come from much farther away. You still have to cross Guatemala and Mexico and you hear them what they go through and like, “Holy crap.” I had two friends that told me, “Hey man I came on a boat.” It’s harsh. It’s horrible. And the fact that the situation back home is very, very hard.

Interviewer: So overall you had a positive experience?

Cuauhtémoc: Extremely positive. I think that’s what made my stay in the US the most beautiful thing ever. I lived in Orange County. Orange County is pretty much the South—more of the richer, more high-income people that are mainly Caucasian. But luckily for me as a student, I have always had access to like parties and stuff, and I wasn’t really discriminated ever. Actually, as a gardener, you go work for these people, but they never had once said, “Hey you dirty Mexican do it.” On the contrary, they would give us gifts sometimes since we did a very good job. There was a guy I used to work for in a mansion, like a small mansion, and the dude—I was thirteen for crying out loud, I was working—but the dude saw that I was playing with the dog. I wasn’t really working. My pops would get very pissed because like, “Yo dude, we’re here to work.”

Cuauhtémoc: And the guy was just seeing me, this young kid, and he’d pay me really well. He paid me even more than my dad. Like, “You’re a young kid, you keep doing that, you keep working hard.” The dude came from a German family of immigrants, so he knows.  He too was like, “I too grew up working as a child, as an adolescent.” So he recognized, “Hey you know what? Don’t lose that.” And I was working in this mansion, it was just a patch of grass—like a patch the size of this—and we were mainly doing flower work, but the dude had a huge house. He’d buy us this banquet of food and fruits and all this. “Hey, go ahead, and, hey, come here.” He’d give us breaks all the time. He didn’t care. He just wanted to see us take care of the house and the dog was just always looking for me. I was playing with the dog. 

Cuauhtémoc: I had a lot of cool black friends—never once had an issue. I know that in Cali—you probably maybe know this, maybe not—but like in LA precisely, Mexicans and blacks go at it pretty hard for gang territory. So for me, since I wasn’t really a gang member, I never really got involved in that. I actually had a lot of black friends that were really cool. Same thing with the Asians. In the North part of Orange County, you have a place called Little Saigon. Saigon is a city in Vietnam, so you go to that part of the city and everything is like in Asian, like Japanese, Chinese, like the symbols, and you get to eat a lot of really good stuff. I had a lot of Asian friends that used to race. Yeah, illegal street racing—it was a big thing in Orange County so I kind of got involved in that a little bit. But mainly because I love cars. So I had that diversity thing has always, always, always been my thing.

Cuauhtémoc: At the end of the day, I don’t consider myself Mexican. I consider myself just a citizen of the world. Just a person, a human being with an elevated consciousness. The ego is something that really hurts you sometimes, it’s good to be proud, but at the end of the day, we’re just flesh and bone. We’re in this temporary vessel we call body, the conscience is much higher. It radiates and goes beyond this three-dimensional reality. But I’m human, I’m Mexican. Hey, I’m blessed is all got to say.

Interviewer: In your survey, you mentioned the numerous jobs that you had. So what would you say was your favorite job and your least favorite job in the United States?

Cuauhtémoc: Gardening by far because you work with mother earth. I called her mother because it’s very feminine energy. There’s a lot of masculinity too, but I think that feminine energy is what allows us to… I mean both are important and there’s the yin and yang, but the fact that you get to work with it firsthand is beautiful. The fact that you work to keep something alive and to nurture it, I think that’s a key element in understanding the way this whole ecosystem works. 

Cuauhtémoc: And the worst job I’d have to say was plumbing because you’re just dealing with feces and stuff, it’s a wet job. One time I hit a PVC pipe and just water everywhere, dirty water. It’s not a fun job. And I didn’t have to do it, the only things you have to do in this life are growing old and dying. Even breathing is a choice so I didn’t have to do it. It was a necessity.

Interviewer: You mentioned in your survey too that you were a victim of violent crime in the United States?

Cuauhtémoc: I grew up in a not-so-nice part of the city at first. Santa Ana, California, is divided from very ghetto to very nice. I wouldn’t say I grew up in the very ghetto, but in the next level, which is ghetto. On a daily basis, I heard gunshots. I saw people getting blasted with a gun. People were fighting on a daily basis. I too fought a lot. I dedicated myself to event coordinating and promoting. I would do house parties for money. So, I actually got shot at my parties because I had a party crew, I guess you can say. A party crew is basically a crew of people who like to party and organize events but it was done with innocent intentions.

Cuauhtémoc: So, part of these people were indeed in gangs. I was surrounded by gangs my whole life, gang life was basically high school life. In high school, you had people fighting over high school. Gang members were like, “Okay, you’re from middle side, you’re from Santa Anita. So, who’s you chilling with?” I chilled with both. They’re like, “Nah, half these fools are in Nashalala.” Always fighting, so I was always caught in the crossfire. Always. But I kept my essence strong. I brought my business and I had friends from all gangs and I got involved with all of them, but I wasn’t in their gang activities, just their friends. You grew up with them as a young kid, so by the time you end up a grownup, they respect you, but they’re like, “I’m a gang member you’re not.” Maybe you’re walking down the street and you’re seen, “Hi yo, what’s up man? Why are you hanging out with that fool for? That fool is from this gang and you’re my boy too but…” I have to fight a lot, a lot, a lot.

Interviewer: And when you were shot at were you ever hit?

Cuauhtémoc: Nope. They came in a beat-up car, they saw me, and I saw the Uzi just popped out. I throw myself on the ground and they just sprayed the party. So basically, what ended up happening was that I was not targeted, but I was throwing a party where it was like a gang area, I guess very gang. So they just came and they just sprayed the party so I just tossed myself to the ground.

Interviewer: And did people die?

Cuauhtémoc: No, actually no. But some people did get hit and when that happened the guys in my party went to seek revenge and they did kill the dudes that shot.

Interviewer: Wow.

Cuauhtémoc: And that was just a weekly thing. I mean, gang violence was very hardcore.

Interviewer: Now we’re going to transition a little bit into talking about your return to Mexico. How old were you when you came back?

Cuauhtémoc: Twenty-one.

Interviewer: And can you tell me how you ended up here starting from before you were deported to leading up to that?

Cuauhtémoc: Now I tend to get very judged on this, so I hope that this is—

Interviewer: No judgment here.

Cuauhtémoc: Okay, so something that I love is chemicals. I actually studied for a chemical engineering degree in SAC. I was very close to finishing. I got involved with MDMA. I wasn’t manufacturing it, but I was selling it. Why? Well, I mean you could say with so much work in the States, why did you decide on doing this? Well, it was very easy for me to do. I loved doing it. Not so much in the sense that I loved the money, but I love studying the chemicals.

Cuauhtémoc: Actually, prior to me doing it for recreational purposes, I was studying the effects on schizophrenic people. And I was doing the whole rave thing and I sold MDMA to pay for school. I was working, but I was doing 18 units. I don’t know if you know how the school system in the US works, but 18 units is actually much more. I even did 20 units in some semesters. So you have the typical 12 units, I was doing 20. My chemistry class was a five-hour block so just imagine that. It was six units by itself, just the chemistry class with its lab. So, you have a six hour, [sharp exhale], just huge block with 30-minute rest and I had critical thinking after—I had calculus and that was just a day.

Cuauhtémoc: And man, I was there from eight in the morning to ten at night. And no, I’m not excusing myself, this is basically just my life as a student and I’d made the wrong decision. That’s life. So I was a full time student from Monday through Thursday, on Fridays I would exercise because I had a stability ball class. I had a bunch of like exercise classes. So Saturdays and Sundays were pretty much my only days to generate income. So I would go in the mornings with my father to work the fields, landscaping all that good stuff. So during the evenings I would organize events and at the same time I had the pills with me so I would sell them. 

Cuauhtémoc: So basically what started off as a tiny hobby eventually became like a big thing. I would actually eventually carry like up to a hundred pills at once or more. Not only that, but I would DJ, I was a DJ, a promoter, and an event coordinator and I was doing my site stuff. But you know that I actually did it. I started doing that when I was 14, left it alone because I was okay with money, and I started again hardcore when I was like 21. I started off with like 10 pills and eventually, I got to like 400 pills. How it happened was this: I organized an event in the Galaxy Theater which was a big deal—it was a huge event, and a lot of money went towards making that event happen. It got canceled because people were just too chaotic. It was just out of control.

Cuauhtémoc: My events would get severely packed and hot, so people were just … it was just a mess. It got shut down. So what I did was I had a warehouse and my friend had a warehouse, so I said, “You know what, we’re moving the party to the warehouse.” I get there, and apparently the chaotic people that went to that party also went to that warehouse. So the cops came, and I was actually in a car with friends drinking and stuff. And when the cops came, I had about a hundred pills on me. So that was bad. I got caught with like a hundred pills. And that’s pretty much what happened. It was a possession for sale of a schedule one substance, 3,4-Methylene​dioxy​amphetamine, which is a chemical name for MDMA.

Cuauhtémoc: I didn’t really try to avoid any persecution or prosecution. I told the cops straight up, “Hey, here’s my college ID. I’m a chemical engineer. I do not manufacture these myself, but I do sell them to maintain my school expenses.” My parents at the time were barely, barely making it, so I made a bad decision. I wanted to take care of the expenses through illegal means.

Interviewer: College in the United States is very expensive.

Cuauhtémoc: But the guy, even he, just put his hand on his palm and he was like, “Dude, how much left do you have until you graduate?” Like two semesters. I just need calculus one. I need a psychology class, which was in progress—I was Intro to Psychology 101. I needed a speech class, which was in progress. My organic chemistry one was pretty much in progress. So I was basically a semester away from getting my associates in chemistry with a minor in English. So, when I called my mom from jail, she just broke down. She was like, “Yo come on.” I mean she didn’t say yo, but everybody was just extremely disappointed because they had really high hopes for me.

Cuauhtémoc: So, I disappointed everybody, that’s the most difficult thing, it hurts. It really does hurt. I mean for me too. Jail for me was easy because like I said, I actually had a name for myself. They knew me as Godfather because I had a lot of fame in Orange County—a lot of people knew me because of my events. I forgot to mention that I was very, very like a small celebrity in my County for many reasons. So, when I got to jail, I was received very well. They gave me like all this good stuff, so jail for me was actually pretty, pretty light.

Interviewer: Okay. And how long were you there?

Cuauhtémoc: Like four months, five months.

Interviewer: Was that your sentence?

Cuauhtémoc: Yeah. Because I didn’t fight anything. The cop was like, “Yo man, I can’t help you. I can’t even let you go.” Because I got let go a lot of times. I forgot to mention that during. My party scene brigade. I was partying left and right, never had a license, never had anything. I was living the American dream. I was living a very good life. We moved into a middle-class neighborhood, Garden Grove, actually. And my mom has a beautiful house. I mean, wow, like just, I look back and say, “lo que me perdí,” pero I’m in Mexico and am loving every second of it.

Cuauhtémoc: I think actually I have grown spiritually exponentially since I got here because I was very materialistic in the States. I really was. If you consider life in the States, you say you haven’t lived there much, but it’s extremely competitive. So I’ve always wanted to have the best stuff because I did get consumed by consumerism and materialism in the States. That’s just me being honest, and brutally honest. That’s primarily the reason why I started selling MDMA in the first place because landscaping wasn’t getting me much.

Cuauhtémoc: Since I got back from the States, I became like that because of the bullying and that bullying was constant throughout my entire life. One because soy pequeño. Well I’m very short compared to African Americans and whites and a lot of our island like Cubanos y Puertorriqueños son grandes. [Cubans, Puerto Ricans, are tall] So, we’re the small people, we’ve got the small gene. I was forged in the fires of bullying.

Interviewer: Tell me a little bit more about your deportation process. So you were detained or arrested?

Cuauhtémoc: Actually, it was very, very light. I was arrested—

Interviewer: After you left jail?

Cuauhtémoc: No, I was arrested for my MDMA possession, for selling.

Interviewer: Yeah exactly, and you stayed in jail for four months and—

Cuauhtémoc: And from jail, the exit was right there, beautiful. I was actually already contemplating receiving my family, hugging them, [Sigh] and then, “Come with me. Cuauhtémoc.” He even pronounced my name well—I was like, “Oh wow, you got it right.” “Hey, come here. You’re coming with me. ICE has a hold on you.” Argh, I just felt that Argh feeling was just…I felt ice. I just felt like a super cold bucket. My world just deteriorated right in front of me. It completely destroyed me, I was like, “Oh no, ICE!” But I had contemplated that actually and I wasn’t hurt. I didn’t cry because I knew what I had done. So, slowly but surely that beautiful image of me receiving my family just broke into pieces, slowly. It just disintegrated into the abyss. 

Cuauhtémoc: I was handcuffed, boom, boom, get on the bus. And we were taken not too far away—actually, it was within Santa Ana—and I was processed there. And once they took me, the treatment was actually not that bad. So, with respect, obviously “Hurry up,” and we went to this place called Theo Lacy Facility, which was by my house. I could literally have jumped the wall and I could have been at my house. So, I would literally, when we had yard time in Theo Lacy, I would look up at the sky, I’m like, “Yo dude, I could hear the traffic that I would hear when I was at home.” And the theater, there was this plaza called Orange County the block, so you could hear people laughing and stuff. It was very demoralizing.

Interviewer: And did you have any contact with your family while you were in detention?

Cuauhtémoc: Throughout the entire time. My mom couldn’t visit me because at the time she was still fighting. That was actually what made it very hurtful, that I never got to formally say goodbye. Only my citizen family members and my ex-girlfriend, she went, and my best friend. She actually would deposit me money like $100 like, “Hey here, here, here.” Although we had broken up very badly. Not in the sense that … Not violent, but like we both were destroyed afterward.

Interviewer: Then what happened? How long were you in the detention center?

Cuauhtémoc: Like two weeks.

Interviewer: And then they took you to Tijuana and they were like —

Cuauhtémoc: Actually, I went through Theo Lacy to the farm. They kept moving me around. The farm was actually extremely pleasant because you had like two hours of yard time and my bunkie was from Armenia. He was there for banking—some super high hardcore, super, I don’t know. The dude had a ton of money and, whenever his commissary came by, he got like huge, huge, huge bags of stuff, like “hey, toma.” [here, take it] Armenian people are really cool. So I never had an inconvenience there at all.

Cuauhtémoc: I had a rep, I mean, to this day people still call me that name. People that know me from the States still call me “Godfather.” Think of it like this: I was this short little midget-looking Mexican guy running the party scene in his own way and with these huge gang members.

Cuauhtémoc: I would go to LA a lot and people would know me from LA like, “You’re godfather from the Orange County party scene?” “Yeah.” Like, “Oh well welcome to the LA party scene.” But they were more gang-like. “Hey man, that’s not me but okay.” So, during my stay, I had a lot of love, especially from this dude from El Salvador and this dude from Puebla. They were like my go-to guys. Had any issues, “Hey, yo, man there’s some beef right here.” “No, don’t worry about it.” “Hey man, that’s my friend. Leave him alone.” I pretty much had it very easy, but también porque ya venía apalabrado —like I had my street side to back me up. So super, super pleasant, ate really well. I was pretty much sleeping most of the time just comiendo, durmiendo, [eating, sleeping] chilling. When the judge saw me, she’s like, “MDMA? Immediately remove this individual from the States.” But she said it in such a hateful manner.

Interviewer: As if like white people don’t do MDMA or don’t do silly things.

Cuauhtémoc: Actually, my customers were mainly white and Asian. I’d like to point that out. But like I said, I got along so well with people. I never got that discrimination. It was a beautiful thing. Maybe it’s because I was like the go-to guy, I don’t know, maybe es como dicen, “el dinero quita defectos.” [as they say, money removes defects] So the fact that I had the good stuff and also I had money maybe that’s what made people see me as this. But I think that they were genuinely cool with me because the rave people are about peace, love, unity, and respect, the PLUR thing. That’s like a thing where you put your hand and share a bracelet, so it looks like the love thing, I guess. I don’t know if it’s really love, but maybe you can, it’s some trastorno psicológico. [psychological defect]

Cuauhtémoc: Anyway, so we have the judge was very just like when … Para empezar, [for starters] they had us chained up. There’s a chain here, a chain here, a chain here. We just literally had to walk like that. You were like in shackles. The most heartbreaking thing was seeing my family destroyed when I came in like that. Like it’s bringing in El Chapo, not even El Chapo had that much. So, they brought me in like if I was like a high, like super…Yeah, it was bad. It was real bad because I just saw … I couldn’t even look their way, like, don’t look over there. The guy was just like, “Go in there, don’t be turning around, don’t be so.” I remember the expression he just went… And I just sat there like with my head down, I couldn’t look back. But I could hear sus lamentos, llorando. [their cries, crying] They were very sickly destroyed. You could hear. You didn’t have to look to notice how destroyed they were. I’m sorry. Bad decisions, they cost dearly sometimes. It’s okay.

Interviewer: And so coming back to Mexico, how was that like? What happened?

Cuauhtémoc: The first two years were very, very depressing. It took me about a year and a half to just assimilate everything. I was very depressed. One, because people didn’t accept me right away. One because I had a thick accent, my Spanish wasn’t at 100%. People see you as this opportunity to make easy money kind of thing. Cause, like you go out in the streets and you ask for something, they’re like, “este güey es pocho.” [that dude is pocho] They give you stuff more expensive, amongst other things. I mean, you ask for directions sometimes they send you to the wrong place just because they like to fuck with people. Sorry about the cursing, I apologize. But what liberated me from all of that is that I actually, my first job was down the street, TeleTech, it was a dish network. So that kind of helped a lot. The fact that I wasn’t alone, the fact that I shared this experience. My first wave, the stories were pretty much identical. So that gave me strength, the fact that I wasn’t the only deportee.

Cuauhtémoc: But I was pretty down actually the first year and a half. I wanted to go back. I dearly missed my family. My mom even said “Hey, I’ll pay for you to come back.” “No, not anymore. I’m here now. I’m alone. Gracias, pero ya soy independiente.” [thanks, but I am independent] I’m sorry. Is it okay if I say that in Spanish? “Ya soy independiente, y has hecho mucho por mi, pero tengo que pagar por mis errores y lo voy a hacer. Por más que este muy deprimido, por más que este triste, necesito aprender alla hacer las cosas por mi mismo, y bien.” [I am independent, you have done a lot for me, but I have to pay for my mistakes and I will. Although I am depressed, although I am sad, I need to learn to do things on my own, and well] So, basically, I rejected all. My mom was like, “Come on, we’ll get you back.” “No, no, no. I don’t want to go back because I have to basically feed that … I have to redo that bad karma that all those years I fed so much. I want to just neutralize that and actually construct something in my place of origin.”

Cuauhtémoc: I mean my name Cuauhtémoc, it’s Nahuatl, it means, “aguila que desciende” [descending eagle]. So, I took that really into my heart and said, “I have the name of an Aztec emperor. I am an Aztec emperor.” I consider all of us to be Gods because we have the power to create and destroy. So, I said just like how I destroyed over there, I can create here. Puedo crear un patrimonio aquí en mi lugar de origen. [I can create a patrimony in my place of origin] In this beautiful place, and for that reason, I declined, I don’t want to go back. Maybe it was because pride also had to do a lot with my decision. But now that I look back, I’m very proud in the sense that I’m one of a few family members that actually has made it out alone.

Cuauhtémoc: Most of my cousins still live with their parents my age. Some haven’t left the nest. I started working when I was twelve. So, I feel proud of the fact that I had to learn what hard work was like very early. It kind of made it not too difficult for me. It kind of eased the transition to the point where when I started working, it was like a whatever thing. I left my aunt’s house very quickly. I was there for like two, three months and I said, “Hey, I’m gone. Thank you.” Oh, I forgot to mention when I got here from the States, my family was very discriminant of me because of what I had come for, which was basically possession for sale. You could even manejarlo como un narcomenudeo [handle it as drug dealing] , I guess you can say. They did not take that positively at all. They’re like, “Yo, what the heck were you thinking? You were dealing drugs and you’re now in my household. I have a criminal in my household. Get away.”

Cuauhtémoc: They would tell me, “No hables ingles porque te van a secuestrar. No te vistas asi porque te ves como un criminal.” [don’t speak English because you will be kidnapped. Don’t dress like that because you look like a criminal] I had pierced earrings and they’re like, “No eso, no más los criminales usan eso. No te pongas esas gorras porque parece que vas a robar el micro.”[not that, only criminals use these. Don’t wear those hats because it looks like you are going to rob the bus]  So you understand that when I came here I was heavily, heavily discriminated by my own family. That was pretty rough. That’s primarily the reason why I was so depressed because I had it pretty hard with the family. They were pushing me down so hard, but I made it. I’m still here.

Interviewer: And did you go to school? Did you try to finish college?

Cuauhtémoc: Basically, I went to do the test. I did not study for the test. People—I’ve heard these crazy stories of so many people failing and like it’s so hard, no it’s not. Maybe because I had three years of university to back me up, three and a half. I just felt like that test was a super piece of cake. I mean the chemistry, the sciences, physics and chemistry, I got 100%. Math was like 90%. I failed only literature for obvious reasons, but universal history got a pretty high score. I got much high scores in everything except in Spanish, like literature and with composition, like Spanish composition. If it would have been English composition, I would have dominated that easy. [Laughs]. But yeah, basically—oh and Mexican history was—I just bombed that test horribly. I got like two out of ten right. Dismal. And the only stuff that I got right was like the pre-Hispanic history like, “When did Cortés show up?”

Interviewer: Oh my gosh.

Cuauhtémoc: That was ultra-easy so 1521, obvio. [obviously] I think he got to Puerto Rico first and Veracruz, he did a lot of atrocities in Puerto Rico also. Mr. Hernán Cortés. Anyway, so I happily bring my results to reception and the lady kind of saw my smile and like, eh, desde allí, como [from then, like] “you cocky B-A-S-T-A-R-D” because para empezar, [for starters] I spoke to her in English. Why? I don’t know. That was kind of my fault, people don’t like being spoken to in English. I guess people get offended. I don’t know. No les gusta que… “Oye, [they don’t like it because] hey, I’m done.” “¿Qué?” “Oh, I’m sorry.” That’s when that care is like piercing, “ah wait, sorry. I’m sorry. Ya acabé mi examen.”[I finished my exam] “Okay.” And I showed her my high school diploma, “Esto no sirve.” [that is of no use] That just broke my heart. That’s like, “aquí esto no sirve.” [that is of no use] I’m like, “What do you mean, como que no sirve? [how come it’s of no use] That’s a lot of years of dedication. That’s my life. What do you mean que no sirve?” “Aquí no sirve,” [it’s of no use] but in such a hateful, super, super hateful way that my heart just popped.

Cuauhtémoc: Anyway, I said, “You know what? Well, si no te sirve a ti, pues esto no me sirve a mí. No quiero estudiar.” [if that is of no use, well, this is of no use to me. I don’t want to study.] I was making sick cash in TeleTech. I was doing triple hours, I was getting bonuses left and right. I was getting like, my paycheck was like, 8000 a month. Then I was getting almost double with just overtime in bonuses, so I felt like a big baller. I was like, “Oh yeah, I’m balling again. But that’s because I would ask my family, what’s the minimum wage? Like 80 pesos a day or 60, I don’t know? That was stupid little me, “Oh yeah, I’m making way more than minimum wage.” And I felt good and went like, “Screw school. I don’t need school. As long as I keep selling and doing mad overtime and hitting my metrics, I’m going to ball hard and I‘m gonna get a car.” But silly me, I should have continued. I was actually trying to major in English teaching because I love teaching.

Cuauhtémoc: One of the things that I loved doing in college was tutoring. That’s a thing that I like to do is transmit knowledge, transmit wisdom. I think the best way that you can make this world a better place is by sharing. It’s like basically implanting a seed in your brain and you decide if you want to nurture it or not. That’s basically up to you if you want to keep sharing the gift of knowledge. Whether it’s morals, whether it’s literature, whether it’s a trade. I’m sharing this with you. I’m investing my time and attention to transmit something to you. It’s my gift. Whether you want to see it die or not, it’s really up to you.

Cuauhtémoc: So when somebody donates a little bit of their perspective, it increases and it helps you see a much broader landscape. So the fact that somebody is taking the time to teach you something or to share something, you pay attention. Because maybe what they’re expressing, they could be extremely passionate about, and maybe helpful. It may serve a purpose later on in your life, so keep that in mind. When somebody shares something with you, the least you can do is donate a little bit of attention. And I say donate because that’s really what you’re doing. You’re donating time. Time is valuable.

Interviewer: I agree. Yeah. And do you think you found something in Mexico that you had in the US? It doesn’t have to be material things. It can also be a feeling.

Cuauhtémoc: Myself. I found myself, I was lost for so many years pursuing the wrong things. I was only doing school primarily because I was being forced. I studied chemistry because I love chemicals, but in reality, it wasn’t really my passion. I think teaching is much more something I like. Literature is lovely, I love art. I’m not an artist, but I love the appreciation of art. If I were to show you my phone, my gallery, I have some really nice photos. My phone takes nice photos—not to show off, but I actually do pride myself in some of the photos I’ve taken. I love architecture, I love meeting people from other places, not that I don’t like Mexicans, but la comida, food is something that I absolutely enjoy, music, just culture itself.

Cuauhtémoc: That’s why I think that I’m in the right place. Why? I mean, ultimamente, [recently] I’ve been meeting people from all over the place and I’m very happy to hear that people from other countries come here and see for themselves what Mexico is like. That makes me very, very happy. It makes me extremely happy to know that people come to share. I mean, you go downtown, there’s a Chinatown here too. There’s a lot of people from Haiti, a lot of people from Guatemala. I myself had Honduran neighbors so I’ve always loved to mix myself with other races and cultures. So short answer, myself. I found myself.

Interviewer: What do you miss about the United States?

Cuauhtémoc: My family. Luxuries I can have here. Beaches I have here, beautiful landscapes I have here. It’s the family, my brothers and sisters, mainly my mom, and my stepdad.

Interviewer: And would you go back to the United States?

Cuauhtémoc: I don’t want to, only if I have to.

Interviewer: And why wouldn’t you?

Cuauhtémoc: Siento que tengo muchas cosas que hacer aquí. [I feel as though I have a lot to do here] —tengo un patrimonio que tengo que construir. [I have a patrimony I need to build] I don’t intend on having kids not so much because I don’t … I love kids. I absolutely love kids because they’re the ones that are most receptive. I’ve donated a lot of time into planting seeds with kids and I’ve taught English to kids and they’re the most appreciative in these things. I think that there are many philosophers such as Machiavelli and Thomas Hobbes for instance. Machiavelli is like the whole “you’re born innately evil,” whereas Hobbes is like “you’re born pure and good.” I consider that to be the truth because I consider society to be the corrupting factor. I think we’re born pure and you learn based on your surroundings and your upbringing. So to elaborate on Hobbes, I see these kids eager to learn and to share. Not all of them, but es porque [it’s because] their upbringing, but mainly you see a child full of love, full of innocence. And I see that.

Interviewer: Would you recommend people to migrate to the United States?

Cuauhtémoc: Depends who’s asking. If it’s somebody hopelessly lost, just running away. No, don’t run away from your problems ever. If you’re in Mexico running away to the States, same thing. Don’t. Go to a place to be better. Go to a place to give something. Go to a place to make the place better, don’t do it because you’re running away or because you have problems. No. Go and donate something. Go and be a beacon for those in utter darkness and desolation. Don’t go make things worse. Porque muchos van a vender drogas [many will sell drugs]. I did it. But if you’re going to go hurt society might as well, don’t go. Para que vas? Why are you going to go make society worse than it already is? I made society worse and I paid my karma and I lived very harsh things. Very, very harsh things too. I mean it wasn’t just happy. I got beat up a couple times and I got robbed a few times. Hey, it’s part of the process, you compensate good karma with bad karma. I did a lot of good things too—I left a lot of good knowledge in people. So that’s why to this day I’m very blessed, extremely, very blessed, like you have no idea.

Interviewer: My last question was in what ways did being in the United States shape who you are? I feel that you have continuously said that, but if you want to specifically answer that too you can?

Cuauhtémoc: Of course, I’m extremely competitive in every way. In my work environment, I’m highly respected because last month I did the work of three people. We are measured by the amount of work we do. I’m a security administrator and access management for Royal Caribbean and Adecco. I basically create user accounts, manage their computer accesses, and the programs they get to see. So on a monthly basis, I’m almost always first place and usually it’s by a long shot. 

Cuauhtémoc: I’m doing two campaigns right now. I think the graveyard people do multiple campaigns, but it’s just calls, they take calls. I don’t take calls, I do more delicate stuff. I delegate accesses, I assign certain programs and stuff. So my competitiveness has been … I’ve always been very hungry in that sense. Since my first job here, I was doing overtime in training because I had that spark. I’m a fast learner and, no, it’s not a brag, it’s just me being sincere. I’m very fast. I’ve been gifted with that fast learning capability. So I adapt quickly to my environment. So how has the US shaped me? Dominant. I seek dominance. Not in a way that it steps on people, but I share my skills in an attempt for you to come back also.

Cuauhtémoc: Because in order for a society to grow it needs to be collective. I come up, you come up with me. I try to pull you. If you don’t want to be pulled, that’s fine, I’ll leave you alone as long as you don’t bring us down. And that’s basically the way I consider everything. Let’s grow, I’m not going to grow alone. You come with me,  if you don’t want to grow, at least be neutral and don’t hinder us. Don’t hurt us. You want to be part of the team and just as long as you play by the rules and you get your share done, I’m okay. When you fall behind, I’m going to gently poke you and say, “Hey, remember that tú tienes que hacer esto, you have to do it.” And if you don’t hey, you know what? I’m sorry but we have a collective consciousness and we want to grow and I’m sorry, but you are hindering our capability. So thus I’m going to ask you nicely, “Hey, ayudanos, necesito que hagas tu parte, [hey help us, I need you to do your part] if you can’t do your part, then I’m going to have to relinquish. You have to go away. Not in the sense that like you’re shut down, I’m still going to love you and I’m going to support you, but you’re just not part of that immediate project. And I’m still going to invite you to my barbecues and you’re still going to be my friend. But en cuestiones de crecimiento [but in relation to growth].” 

Interviewer: I don’t know if you have anything else that you want to add? Are you satisfied with everything?

Cuauhtémoc: I’m extremely satisfied and I’m thankful for being here. I think I’m very appreciative of the treatment that I got today. It’s very important.

We spoke again with Cuauhtémoc in 2022

Interviewer: All right, so we can go ahead and get started. So how old are you now?

Cuauhtemoc: I’m 32 years old at the moment.

Interviewer: Thirty-two. And thinking back to when you first arrived in Mexico, were you greeted by any authorities or representatives of an organization upon reentry to Mexico?

Cuauhtemoc: Not necessarily. I mean … Well, it’s been a really time far back. I just remember being graded by this small entity of individuals that wanted to help us get our documentation all set and ready to go. So that way, we had a form of communication. It was a lot fresher when C. interviewed me, but now as the time has passed, I don’t really recall exactly how it was, but I do remember being greeted by a group of individuals that wanted to get the documentation aspect out of the way. So they’re like, “Okay, we’re going to help you guys get a temporary ID.” So that’s pretty much what the process underwent.

We didn’t really get any other additional type of orientation or nothing like that. It’s just, “All right, let’s get your paperwork,” and that’s it.

Interviewer: Okay. And did they … So they didn’t help out with money, food, shelter, anything like that?

Cuauhtemoc: Well, that is a good question. I don’t recall them specifically offering me, but then it could have been a situation where I might have missed something, but they didn’t really mention it at all, like zero. I know that when this happened, it was in 2011. So I know that since then a lot has changed, a lot. So I might have not gotten to be part of those lucky few that got that offer or the shelter, and the food, and the money, and stuff. I would’ve taken it, don’t get me wrong. I would’ve jumped on it right away, but, no, I did not get any offer of any kind.

Interviewer: All right.

Cuauhtemoc: Not to my knowledge, at least.

Interviewer: Yeah. And what would have been helpful?

Cuauhtemoc: Well, maybe for starters, just some psychological support, making sure that people that are actually coming on board, and this is not just me, but I’m talking just broadly here.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: A lot of the people that are coming back are not necessarily all that good in the head. Some are coming for some pretty serious stuff so, yeah, no. Making sure they’re really ready to be reinserted in society. How’s the social reinsertion? Are you okay? Maybe get evaluated both medically and physically. That would’ve been good. But they’re just like here, go be on your own and hope for the best.

Interviewer: Yeah. And you said you got back to Mexico in 2011. So is that 11 years now?

Cuauhtemoc: June 7th, 2011. I know the date quite well. It was like towards in the afternoon-ish. Yeah, around 3:00 or 4:00, I believe. I might be wrong on that, but it was more like 4:00 or 5:00 actually. Yeah. Now that I remember because the sun was setting.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: Now, what was the question again? I’m sorry.

Interviewer: No, you’re okay. Just how long have you been back? So that would be 11 years?

Cuauhtemoc: So a little bit short of 12 years, I believe. No, wait a minute. Wait a minute. So it’s 2011. No, about a little short of … It’s 2022, right?

Interviewer: Mm-hmm.

Cuauhtemoc: So I’m about a week and a day shy of 11 years exactly.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: Because a week from tomorrow, it would be that anniversary actually, now that I think about it.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: It’s crazy times.

Interviewer: Yeah. No, it is crazy times.

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah.

Interviewer: And what town or city do you live in now?

Cuauhtemoc: Mexico City, to be precise. I mean, I have an apartment in [redacted]. It’s pretty nice. I like it. I’m going to end up selling it, though. It’s not the safest. Yeah. I made a bad decision when getting that apartment.

Interviewer: Yeah. Understood. And so I’m going to read off some of potential challenges that you may have faced when returning to Mexico and that’s a long list-

Cuauhtemoc: All of the above. Just kidding. Yeah. But it was a pretty brutal experience, I’m not going to lie. I’m not going to sugarcoat anything. It was pretty bad.

Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. So if it’s all right with you, I can go through and then you can say yes, that was a challenge or, no, it wasn’t. And then maybe elaborate as much as you want to.

Cuauhtemoc: All righty. Let’s rock and roll.

Interviewer: All right. So how about bureaucratic difficulties? Getting the papers or documents that you needed.

Cuauhtemoc: 100% on the very far right, 100% total challenge. It was not an easy process and the family didn’t help much. So that was terrible.

Interviewer: Yeah. How about obtaining health care?

Cuauhtemoc: Well, it depends. What type of health care are we talking about?

Interviewer: It could be things-

Cuauhtemoc: Any?

Interviewer: Yeah, any.

Cuauhtemoc: Well, just know this that in the country of Mexico, there is a process that all employees follow that are given health care freely by the government, but you need to be employed. So I guess you could relate getting health care to getting a job. As soon as you get a job, where you’re formally under a government entity, you’re going to be given health care. So in that aspect, it wasn’t that bad.

Interviewer: All right.

Cuauhtemoc: Go get yourself a job and you’ll have health care if it’s legit, obviously.

Interviewer: Yeah, yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: Or if it’s not a taxi driver or a cellphone business, then you’re out of luck.

Interviewer: How about finding housing?

Cuauhtemoc: Well, I mean, being new to the country, you don’t really know, there isn’t a Craigslist here. I mean, there is now, but basically just readjusting to, let’s say, for instance, in Mexico, there are sites like Segundamano and Mercado Libre, which are like equivalents to eBay and Craigslist. So just readjusting. I would still say it’s quite a challenge because not everybody is open, especially when you’re just barely getting to know people.

Some people can actually get sketched out. It’s like, “Yeah, I’m looking for a place to rent,” and you don’t know anybody. So they’re like, “We don’t know you. We haven’t seen you around.” Some people are friendly, some are not, but there’s that little challenge that you’re an outsider and just talk like an outsider, you look like an outsider. So people are not as open at first, but that does tend to change. It progresses over time and it becomes much, much better.

Interviewer: And how about finding employment? Was that a challenge?

Cuauhtemoc:   It depends. For me personally, it was, but not because of me personally. It was because of the ideas my family had about me and about them thinking like, “Oh, your life is ruined,” putting me down. But once I pretty much started spreading my own wings, I pretty much took off. I think I did better on my own than I did with my family. And it’s hurtful to say, but it is what it is. That’s the cold hard truth.

Sometimes family can be close-minded. They’re like, “Oh, you shouldn’t work there. You shouldn’t work there. You should maybe do this or do that,” when they don’t really know what you’ve been through. So a lot of times, it’s just best for you to just detach from the nest and just do you, and that’s it.

Interviewer: And how about continuing education?

Cuauhtemoc: Well, that was also another tragedy because when I applied to … I actually applied to study English teaching in UNAM and … Well, pretty much when I did the examination, I passed with flying colors and I took my high school diploma and the lady is just like, “I don’t know what the hell this is.” And she did it in such a nasty way that it discouraged me from furthering my studies even further. I still have that memory to this day. And I think the reincorporation process can be a lot easier.

I mean, if they know that it comes from a respectable institution, I don’t know why there has to be so many translations and so many weird stuff that needs to be taken into effect. One being, it comes from a high school and there should be a much friendlier process when translating documents, or just even making them valid.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: At that particular year, it wasn’t a friendly process and we needed to pay money to notaries. And I don’t know who the hell else. Nowadays, I know that it’s a lot easier, but it’s been a struggle to get the system where it’s just so seamless and so easy to use. When I first got here, it wasn’t as easy. I mean, it wasn’t impossible, but it wasn’t as easy to perform those validations.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah.

Interviewer: And was communicating in Spanish a challenge?

Cuauhtemoc: No. I feel that … Well, at first, I would consider that it was just a matter of relearning stuff, but it wasn’t like a challenge per se. It was more about just self-effort, wanting to do it versus it being a challenge. I mean, I spoke it a lot at home since that’s the main language I would speak so it wasn’t that bad for me. But I know that for others, like other coworkers, other colleagues, other friends, they didn’t speak any Spanish at the home. So when they got here, you feel me, it was a little uncomfortable and hard. Yeah.

Interviewer: Yeah. What about adapting to Mexican culture?

Cuauhtemoc: Not hard at all. Coming from Southern California, there’s a lot of that actually there. Santa Ana, California has actually lots and lots of Mexicans. I even went to school with Spanish speakers only. I mean, there was Spanish speakers all over the place. And on May 5th and September 16th, we’ve had stuff going on up there. I mean, I ate Mexican food almost every day, Mexican food. So, yeah, wasn’t that bad.

Interviewer: Feeling safe and secure.

Cuauhtemoc: Never had any … I mean, at first, it was more of you’re a stranger to the country. I’m going to give you higher prices, but I never felt insecure. But then again … I mean, I come from an … I was institutionalized so fighting was an absolute must. So there was no way around it. You just absolutely had to fight no matter what, otherwise your own circle would probably take you down. And when there was riots and stuff, you’d have to stand up no matter what.

And coming out of that and coming into the world, actually, you’re the aggressor sometimes. You’re like … People look at you a certain way. What the hell is this guy looking at? You got a problem with me, what’s going on? Let’s do something about it because you come from that very hostile, hyper aggressive, hyper hostile mentality. So you’re probably a danger to half of these people. Yes. Yeah.

Interviewer: How about creating a social network or making friends?

Cuauhtemoc: Oh, that was easy, but then that’s my personality. I can’t speak the same for some of my colleagues, but I was always super, super highly sociable. So I found ways to mix and mingle with people. So that was definitely not a problem. On the contrary, I made a lot of cool friends and even from other call centers, other campaigns, and whatever. Good times.

Interviewer: Yeah, yeah. That’s good to hear.

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah.

Interviewer: Family separation.

Cuauhtemoc: That was absolutely terrible. I don’t want to go into detail, but it wasn’t nice. It was bad. Very bad.

Interviewer: Okay. Dealing with depression.

Cuauhtemoc: It’s ongoing, never stopped. Has been something I’ve been dealing with for 11 long years and doesn’t really go away all that much.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah.

Interviewer: And lastly, substance abuse or addiction.

Cuauhtemoc: A little bit of everything, but people learn to be mature. I learn to be mature and just to be one with my mind, body, and spirit, and just understand that I’m here all alone and nobody’s going to come and save me if I make the wrong decisions, and my family’s very far away. So I pretty much just rely and depend on myself fully.

Yeah. I mean, there’s been a little bit of that in the past because I came here when I was 20. So you can imagine from 20 to 25 maybe is the age of exploration, where I’m no longer on a leash. So I’m by myself making my own money. So you could probably imagine. And then most of the people that are coming back are a little damaged as well. So not a good circle to be hanging out with when you’re equally damaged. Yeah. Oh, God.

Interviewer: Well, thank you for sharing.

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah.

Interviewer: And so moving on past the challenges, since you returned, since coming back to Mexico, have you become aware of any programs that support returning migrants?

Cuauhtemoc: Not at all. To be honest, not at all. You guys are the closest to what I’ve come to when it comes to this. But other than that, I mean, I don’t know of anybody, I don’t know of anything, and I’ve been here 11 long years.

Interviewer: Yeah. And … So you mentioned being able to access the health services that you needed. So is that things like doctors’ visits, prescription drugs, hospital services, mental health?

Cuauhtemoc: I actually … I’m a little bit above that one because where I’m working at, at the moment, I actually get dental insurance, I get free psychology visits and not only that, but I get a medical insurance that is way better than the regular health care that they have. So if I get in a pretty nasty accident, they’ll cover most of it. If not, all of it. I don’t even remember the amount, but it’s pretty high and I could go to private hospitals and stuff, but I’ve earned that. It costed me.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: That type of insurance has costed me. I’ve poured myself into the sales thing. Yeah.

Interviewer: Yeah. And who are you living with these days? 

Cuauhtemoc: Nobody.

Interviewer: Alone.

Cuauhtemoc: I mean, there’s been women that have come into my life that have looked for me and, I guess, use my home as a sanctuary/loose friendships/we’re going to date and stuff. I mean, nothing too crazy. People … And not just with women. Well, it’s been … I mean, I’ve had relationships, I guess, that are like open relationships, where sometimes they say, “Hey, listen, I got kicked out. Can I come over and stay maybe like a month or two?” I’m like, “Yeah, come through.” It’s all good-type thing. You know what I’m talking about?

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: When you throw a friend a favor, but then things … Yeah. Yeah. Let’s just put it that way.

Interviewer: Yeah, yeah. Understood. And so are you living in a house, an apartment?

Cuauhtemoc: I mean, I do have an apartment of my own and I’m also renting another apartment at the moment, but the apartment has to go. I’m thinking about selling the apartment and maybe getting something a little more formal, a home. And I’m still thinking about it.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: It’s not 100% mine yet. I just got to pay it off. But once that takes care of business, I’ll probably sell it immediately.

Interviewer: And so then you’re not … Are you paying rent, or?

Cuauhtemoc: Doing both. I’m paying off the apartment and paying off the rent because the apartment, I was renting it, but a lot of things happened. People duplicated the keys and then when I kicked them out, they broke in again and they did some pretty bad stuff. But that was my bad. I should have been in charge of that because I’m so busy sometimes with work that I don’t have time to be checking my apartment every single day.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: So they’ve gotten in there a couple of times.

Interviewer: Yeah, yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah.

Interviewer: And how much do you pay per month in pesos?

Cuauhtemoc: And total with both my house and my apartment and the other thing. So it’s just 8,000 monthly, 8,000 pesos just for the apartment being paid off and then an additional 3,000 for my other rent. So 11,000. Yeah. It’s a lot, I know.

Interviewer: Yeah, yeah. That’s hefty.

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah. Well, for that kind of money, I could be living in La Roma or somewhere nicer, way nicer. You’ve been to Mexico, right?

Interviewer: Yeah, actually, we’re here in Mexico City now.

Cuauhtemoc: Rock on.

Interviewer: Yeah. And so talking about or transitioning to work a little bit, what are some of the jobs that you’ve had since coming back to Mexico?

Cuauhtemoc: When I first arrived here in Mexico, it was just straight-up call center-type deal, either tech support or customer service. But as I progressed, I actually ended up getting an IT. A lot of my leadership background actually comes from it. And then lucky for me, when I was doing business systems training in IT field, somebody offered me a sales trainer position. And then it turns out that I’m much apt, I’m much better made for sales. Okay. So a lot of the stuff that I’ve learned was from IT. The leadership I learned was from IT.

I would say that my heart and soul is with IT 100%. I love IT. And I also love sales because sales is basically something that you get to do to help people and you learn to negotiate better. So those are my two strong points, sales and IT. But it all started very humbly with customer service and your traditional tech support for, let’s say, Time Warner Cable, the boxes down, what do I do type thing is, yeah.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah, you get me, right?

Interviewer: Yeah. And so is that what you’re doing now?

Cuauhtemoc: Hell no. Oh, in sales, yeah.

Interviewer: Okay.

Cuauhtemoc: In sales, yeah. Yeah.

Interviewer: And what’s your pay in pesos for your current job?

Cuauhtemoc: I can’t really disclose that …

Interviewer: Okay.

Cuauhtemoc: … openly, but it’s good. Let’s just put it that way. I make what I want.

Interviewer: Okay. And I know from reading past interviews and also just talking to you that you are very involved with your work and you put a lot of time into it. About how much do you think you work per week, like hours?

Cuauhtemoc: It’s decreased a lot because let me tell you the last time I talked to you guys, I was more in a leadership role. Now, I’m just doing my thing. I actually … I love where I’m working right now. And as a matter of fact, I spent anywhere between 10 to 15 hours of my time. Time is that it’s not really required because I’m doing a lot of follow-up projects. I’m doing a lot of little cool, little things that will help other people learn, writing scripts.

I enjoy the hell lot of doing that. I do little trainings and that’s the type of stuff that I love doing. I like to help others. Yeah. I mean, I’m pretty selfish in the sense that I work for sales, but at the end of the day, I think that maybe taking the time out of my schedule to create a training or to give somebody coaching, that’s what I love to do. That’s what I really love to do. And I’m happy doing it. That’s what fills me.

Interviewer: Yeah. And you said you just came from a coaching session or a mentee session.

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah. Basically, what I was doing is one of our junior members of the team was having a hard time. Well, is having a hard time, not was, is having a hard time closing deals. So I wanted to show him, basically, what it was like to do a correct follow up with a person you’ve already had an appointment or a meeting with.

What we do is that we just confirm, obviously, to see if there’s anything we, as a company, can improve. And then we’d like to get feedback, and be human, and be friends, and understand that when it comes to a sale, you need to resolve a problem. You need to take care of something for somebody, resolving a pain point. And that’s basically what it is, is that when you are very numbers oriented … And this is not just in the sales environment, this is just in any environment. When you are very numbers oriented, you tend to forget the human aspect, whether it’s management, let’s say, if you’re a manager and you’re like, “Oh, I need these numbers. I need these numbers.” And you’re going to get people like, “Man, all you care about is numbers, so why should I care about you,” type thing.

So when you bring an energy to the table that focuses on people rather than numbers, you start to see results. And that’s what I do. And that’s what some people have asked me, “Hey, what are you doing to get the results that you’re getting?” I’m like, “Well, first of all, I’m easing on the gas on the whole numbers thing. Don’t get me wrong, I could do numbers. I could definitely do numbers. I’ve proven it time and time again, but here, it’s not about numbers anymore. It’s about being a friend. It’s about being trustworthy. It’s about being credible.”

Once you develop that credibility, once people trust you, then you can talk sales because they already know that, man, this person that’s on the other side of the phone will give me the very best response possible because they care about me. They really, and genuinely, care about me. So when you ask people, where do you want your business to head in the next maybe year? Have you thought about maybe bringing in the delivery aspect to your business? What do you think about this? What do you think about that? What are your pain points? People will then listen and say, “No one has really taken the time to really ask me these questions. Sure. I mean, well, we’re mom-and-pop business. We’re not looking to do too much. As a matter of fact, we’re looking to retire. We’re actually easing off on the gas.

I mean, marketing and all that stuff won’t do us any good. On the contrary, we want this to stop. We’re going to probably close down and just enjoy the rest of what little life we have. We’ve put 40 years into the business.” So you hear those things and like, “Okay. So maybe what could be useful is maybe preparing for the transition so your children can take over the business. How about giving you guys some technology solutions that can help you ease into that transition?” And then they’ll understand that, “Okay, this guy definitely has something really good to bring to the table.”

Interviewer: Yeah. And it sounds like you’ve obviously brought a lot of your personal skill set to this job. Do you think that any of those skills are things that you acquired from your time in the States?

Cuauhtemoc: I mean, a little bit of everything. It’s just as you grow, you learn to adapt to a situation. I’ve been working since I was 11 years of age with my father. So I feel that even since then, since 11, I’ve been working and I’ve been developing these skills slowly but surely. And not only that, but helping these skills become available, not just for myself, but for others as well. And I feel that I’ve gained leverage in this industry by being selfless. It’s not necessarily about me all the time. It’s about us as a team. Do you know what I’m saying?

Interviewer: Yeah, no. I understand.

Cuauhtemoc: It’s always me bringing a team mentality to the table. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been very individualistic before in the past, and that didn’t really get me anywhere. So I decided to change and I decided to see, why is it that I’m not getting that far? And I realized that you get much farther when you play a team perspective rather than an individual perspective. And that’s when I saw the most results, so I just stuck to it.

I’m like, “You know what, let’s develop the team, let’s develop the company, and let’s move forward.” And that’s what we’re looking to do is just think about the collective success, if you know what I mean.

Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. And then transitioning to education, just to confirm, were you able to validate your US education when you got here? That was a no.

Cuauhtemoc: So I do have a chemical engineering degree that I never really got the paper for, unfortunately. And also, I did study here and I did have a lot of courses for fire safety. I never really meant to get all that paperwork fully situated. It’s unfortunate, but that has done me a favor in the sense that … And me not having an appropriate document, I could have pursued a career in chemical engineering very easily since that’s my background. I’m actually more on the chemistry, physics side. It doesn’t seem that way, but that’s my background.

It is thanks to not me having any documents that had to start from the bottom and basically build my way up again without having a degree to say, “I’m this.” And not having a degree, well, even though I earned it, even though I have the knowledge, helped me to redevelop myself again from zero, from basically nothing, and just build myself up again. And I have been pretty proactive in learning things about business management, Lean Six Sigma, just more corporate-oriented processes, product management, or just even executive coaching strategies. What is this thing called? It’s a study about the non-verbal behavior. So I did get myself certified in a few things, and that is because it was per job demand.

I needed to stay fresh in the industry for me to just even be able to give proper feedback or just do my job efficiently, if you know what I mean.

Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: You must always stay on top of things. You must always stay learning for you to thrive at something. So that’s what I did. I could have told everybody, yeah, I’m a chemical engineer, but where’s the document. And people would say I don’t have it. So they’re like, “You’re a liar. You don’t know anything about chemical engineering.” So I just decided, you know what, forget the chemical engineering. I’m going to start from zero. And that actually did me a lot of good.

Interviewer: Yeah, no, clearly it has.

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah.

Interviewer: And so was the chemical engineering, was that studied in the States or was that studied in Mexico?

Cuauhtemoc: It was studied in the States 100%.

Interviewer: Okay, okay.

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah, 100% in the states. And you know what, I didn’t just study chemical engineering in the States. I was studying three different careers at the same time. I was looking at an English major. I was looking at a graphic design major and chemical engineering major, but obviously I had too much on my plate. I was actually going pretty hard in the English. And I took maybe a semester of psychology and I had all this stuff going on, so it didn’t turn out too good, but I’m glad I did.

Interviewer: Awesome. And … So now, moving to a few questions about safety. So you said before that you do feel safe in Mexico.

Cuauhtemoc: Somewhat, but that’s because of me, that’s not because of the country. I tend to be very well dressed. So I guess safety is a concern, but more for myself because I like to use good phones and use good things. But that’s just me.

I’m not going to get into that all too much, but, yeah, it’s not a bad place to be. It just depends on you as a person. And it’s super safe. I would recommend even my sister, my mom to be here, but just don’t be speaking English all that much at 11:00 with a 30,000 peso phone and with the suit and popping money out and stuff. Yeah. That’s not good.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah. Learned that the hard way.

Interviewer: So have you been a victim of a crime in Mexico?

Cuauhtemoc: Several.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: Not going to go into it, but some pretty nasty stuff. Yeah.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: I got myself into some pretty bad stuff, bad situations, where my life was at risk, not more than once, but it’s my fault, my own fault. Let’s just summarize this point, that these last two questions is, look, if you keep your head down, if you’re humble, if you’re cool, if you’re nice, if you’re respectful, you’ll be good. I wasn’t. So I’m a special case.

Remember that I told you that sometimes when you’re institutionalized, you have that anger or sometimes people look at you a certain way, so you’re not going to fall back or you’re not just going to sit there and allow yourself to be insulted. Well, yeah, that’s all me, but that’s stuff that I’m healing as time progresses, but a normal person wouldn’t have those  problems. A normal person wouldn’t blow up on somebody either.

Interviewer: Yeah. And did you feel more vulnerable as a returning migrant?

Cuauhtemoc: At first, I did, but then I noticed my power and I used that to my advantage actually. I used me being a foreigner, an outsider, to my advantage. I was at first, but then I realized, you know what, I actually have so much potential that I can utilize this potential to benefit me, and it did because it scored me some really good jobs. I worked for Colgate and I’ve had other really high-end IT jobs. And it really just was, “Look, listen, man, I don’t have any paperwork, but I’m from the States. You want native English, I got you,” type thing. So I’m like, “Okay, yeah. Yeah, okay. We want you. Come on. Let’s do it.”

So I totally abuse that, but it’s all good. Yeah, people just … You’ll be surprised how much they’re willing to pay you if you know what you’re doing. And if you have native English, they’ll say, “Hey, listen, you might not have all that documentation, all that paperwork, but your English is just beautiful. We want that type of English here. So come on down. We want you here.”

Interviewer: Yeah. And earlier in the survey, you said that you do have a group of friends here. You’re a very sociable person.

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah. I have tons and tons of friends. I even know people in other cities. I know people in Cancun, and Baja California, and Puebla. In every big city, I know somebody. I could go crash at someone’s house in every big city. Here in Mexico City alone, I probably know tens of thousands of people. That’s how much people I know.

Interviewer: And so did you mainly meet those people through work?

Cuauhtemoc: Call centers, parties, just being out and about. Or even just I could go down there, and if you were like with me, we’ll probably mingle and meet people out at random and like, “Hey, yo, you look like you’re from the States. Where are you from? Oh, I’m from North Carolina. Oh, cool. I’m actually … I grew up in California. This is my friend, Natalia.” Say what’s up.

We’ll probably meet a couple of people just at a random. As a matter of fact, where I work right here in Reforma and Insurgentes, you come out and there’s literally a whole bunch of people from foreign countries, Asian people, people from Africa, European. So I smile at them all the time. I’m not as talkative as I used to be, but I know that if I wanted to spark up a conversation with any of them, I could just say, “Hey, what’s up?” And they’ll be shocked, like, “Oh, you speak English. Hell, yeah, I speak English. What’s up?” You know what I’m saying? That’s how I do it.

Interviewer: Yeah. And that feels like really helpful when you’re showing up in a place where you don’t know anyone.

Cuauhtemoc: Yep.

Interviewer: Okay. And so we have a few questions about family. So do you still have any family living in the US?

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah. Everybody’s still there.

Interviewer: So that’s parents and siblings?

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah. And uncles and aunts and stuff.

Interviewer: And are any of them US citizens?

Cuauhtemoc: Luckily, for my mother and my … Well, most of them have somehow some way obtained either at least a permit or residency at the moment. So that’s a plus. Those that manage to stay out of trouble have managed to fix some paperwork, obviously, was a little expensive, but they managed to do it. So that could have been me.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: Oh, well.

Interviewer: And have any of them come to visit you?

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah, my mom recently.

Interviewer: Oh, that’s nice.

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah.

Interviewer: And have any of your relatives come to live in Mexico?

Cuauhtemoc: No, they’re fine where they’re at. They’re good. Everybody’s fine. It’s just me.

Interviewer: And then are you currently in close contact with any of the Mexican family that you left behind when you migrated to the US?

Cuauhtemoc: Not at all. Not at all. I’m not really in good terms with any of them, to be honest.

Interviewer: Yeah. Do you think that you’ll return to the States someday?

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah, probably work related. And it won’t even be through me. It’ll probably be through work type of thing, where they’re like, “Oh, you got to go.” Okay, whatever.

I’ll tell you this much. I know I’m going to make it big here. Real big. I’m going to blow the hell up. I am. And I’m bringing in a lot of people with me to the top. And once I do, I’m probably going to be traveling all over the damn place. I know it. I see myself there.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: Maybe giving motivational talks or leading very large teams. I know I have the capability. I’ve done it before. I could do it again, and even bigger.

Interviewer: Yeah. And so when you think about your future in Mexico, you feel very optimistic.

Cuauhtemoc: Extremely optimistic. As a matter of fact, I know that I’m going to make a lot of money here and I’m going to help a lot of people, too, because helping really fills me. And at some point, I’ll probably just give motivational speeches. That’s actually my thing.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: So at some point, you’ll probably hear me at some big  seminar or something giving this powerful speech about maybe sales or something. But I actually already … I’m already starting to visualize it. Basically, I’m thinking of a YouTube channel to start off and maybe start expanding, but I’m earning my place slowly but surely. And it’s just a matter of time.

Interviewer: Yeah. I mean, I look forward to that day. In Anita’s class, we read over a bunch of these interviews and transcripts in class for various reasons. And yours have always stuck out to all of the students who ever encounter them. So as far as just having your voice impact people beyond just Mexico, it’s definitely already happening.

Cuauhtemoc: And you know what, I want this to serve as a means of being able to transmit that it doesn’t matter what your past looks like because I know some guys as well. I told you that some of us don’t come as sane. Some of us come from a very dark and painful past. Even people like us, we come into this country. I mean … And it is not just Mexico. I mean, you could go to El Salvador, you can go to Guatemala. It doesn’t matter. I mean, just come start shifting your reality by doing daily visualization, so where you want to be. Just write affirmations, write your goals down, look at things in a present state.

So for instance, me, I see myself already traveling the world, giving some good motivational speeches, talking about things like self-empowerment. And with me doing that, even though I’m not doing so now, I know that when, let’s say, I give a talk to somebody, earlier in the coaching, the guy that I was coaching, he got motivated and I told him, “Look, bro, I’m going to do everything in my power to make sure that you have the tools necessary for you to succeed. And just trust me in the process. We’re going to try them together.” And the guy was really inspired and that was genuine. We clicked. We made a little bond there.

So I know that slowly but surely, we will be able to, as a team, just give the results that we deserve because we deserve to be top. We’re top performers because if you’re already investing energy and talking to somebody, might as well make it a great talk.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: And it’s just with the intention of just giving power to the people, I’m like this fire, right, and you’re just like a little match. So when you come close to me, your little match head is going to light up and you’re going to be able to give somebody else a little piece of this fire. So that’s the way I see it. And all together, we could just burn brightly and be a light for somebody else. I mean, there’s so much darkness in the world that, in today’s day and age, there’s a lot of negativity. So we got to neutralize that negativity and just bring forth positivity.

It’s okay to compete. But really … I mean, there’s so many “successful people”. I mean, let’s be real. I mean, look at a lot of these corporations have done to the planet. It’s been damaging. It’s been something that we’ve been corrupting ourselves with greed. I mean, success doesn’t necessarily mean being greedy. Success just means sharing what you have openly and just not taking any recognition for it.

I don’t want people to highlight and say, “It’s thanks to Cuauhtemoc” No, sir. It’s thanks to you. I mean, I just basically reminded you of who you are, but at the end of the day, I don’t want you to affiliate me to any of this because this is your work. And then we can illuminate each other by doing so. And just bringing that self-empowerment outwards. You know what I mean?

Interviewer: Yeah. That’s really exciting. And you have so many years ahead of you. I also can visualize it as well.

Cuauhtemoc: It will come in due time.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: The blessings basically just fall into your life at the right time. I trust the universe and I trust in myself. When you are in a vibe of trust, when you are in a vibe of just love, trust, peace, you could talk to any of the high performers in anything, the number one thing is trust in yourself and then trust in the process. That’s basically what it is. That’s the number one rule. It’s just trust, vibe with it.

A lot of like the … Even Tony Robbins, Les Brown, Eric Thomas, they talk to you about coaching is number one thing, trust in yourself and then trust in the process. Go with it, vibe with it, learn as you come along, and just do so with a smile. And that’s it. It’s really not that hard.

Interviewer: Thank you.

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah.

Interviewer: And we just have a few more questions about reflecting. So where feels more like home to you, Mexico, the US, both and neither?

Cuauhtemoc: The planet itself is my home. I don’t see myself as Mexican. I don’t see myself from the US. I just see myself as citizen of the world. I’m actually just coexisting with so many different types of species. I mean, we don’t even know if there’s extraterrestrials among us. I mean, it’s just that crazy. And for us to feel so, what’s the word I’m looking for, entitled because of a piece of land is ridiculous. It’s like, “Dude, this is the 21st century. Stop thinking like that.” We’re not entitled to crap. This is just a temporary visit. We’re just here.

I mean, whether or not reincarnation exists or not, I mean, we’re here for, at the most, a hundred years. I mean … So many species have perished because of our hands. Why do we feel so damn entitled to something? It’s like, “Dude, stop.” This whole border thing is crazy. Let’s think with the higher … If we were some advanced species, which we’re not because we still have a lot … If we were an advanced species looking down and saying, “Man, are these people really fighting about for oil? Are these people really fighting about this? Are these people really fighting about an imaginary border?” It’s like, what the hell? What’s going on?

I thought we’ve taught them well, but then … Well, look at today’s day and age, we’re fighting for resources, we’re fighting for oil, we’re fighting for so many ridiculous things that, as a species, it’s sad. It’s terrible what we’re doing to our home planet, what we’re doing to other species that are here living, coexisting. It’s sad, honestly. It’s heartbreaking.

Interviewer: Yeah. And when you think about what home means, what is the first word that comes to mind?

Cuauhtemoc: Sanctuary, although that’s not always the case.

Interviewer: Yeah. And when you think about the US, what is the first word that comes to mind?

Cuauhtemoc: Well, there’s a lot of beautiful things as well as painful things. I can’t really put in a word, but I would say it’s also home, it’s part of home. It’s a place where I was educated and it’s where some of my best friends are. So it’s good. It’s a nice place. Home is good.

Interviewer: And when you think about Mexico, what’s the first word that comes to mind?

Cuauhtemoc: Same thing, no different. Just friends, happy place, good food, same thing, same as the US, nothing’s changed.

Interviewer: Yeah. And so just two more. Comparing how you felt when you arrived in Mexico with how you feel now, do you feel much more comfortable, a little more comfortable, the same?

Cuauhtemoc: Destroyed versus accomplished. Utterly destroyed and empty versus now accomplished and peaceful and positive. Yeah, way more positive, 360-degree turn.

Interviewer: Yeah. And comparing how you feel now with how you felt when you first returned to Mexico, do you miss the US more than you used to, the same, less, or not at all?

Cuauhtemoc: At first, it was a lot. And then now, I could care less.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Cuauhtemoc: I know I have a duty here and it’s far beyond myself. I know that there’s a duty for me being here. I actually do believe that I do have a purpose. So I actually am very spiritual in that sense.

Do you recall the story of Siddhartha Gautama Buddha? Do you know what had to happen for him to find enlightenment?

Interviewer: Remind me.

Cuauhtemoc: So Siddhartha Gautama Buddha lived in the palace as a prince. He did not know of illness. He did not know that getting old was the thing. So when he actually ventured out of the palace, he started seeing these things firsthand and like, “What is going on with this man? Why is he like that? Well, he’s sick. What do you mean?” And as he slowly ventured out more and more into the real world, he started realizing that there was so much pain and suffering. So he went into shock, right? So he eventually started looking for his own truth.

First, he would meditate with the yogis and starve himself and he collected so much data until he finally found that was not for him. It was like, “Okay, these yogis can keep starving themselves. That’s fine.”

And basically, he got to the point where he started meditating and he started just clearing his mind, and the answer slowly but surely started to come about. He needed to detach from that palace lifestyle, from that lie he was living, and basically suffer, understand what suffering was really like, understanding pain, understanding pleasure. And once he was out and about learning something as simple as begging for food and getting food from somebody from a kind soul, he started to understand his purpose in life. And he started getting followers and he started getting in touch with this very sacred knowledge, obviously, from all the people that he touched base upon. And he started becoming illuminated from the inside to the outside, right?

And as that time progressed, he learned a lot in that very short lifespan and he started reteaching that to everybody else that came across him. And I feel like I’m in a very similar trajectory, where I needed to detach from the comfort and basically just get lost in teaching, get lost and basically just find my way again for what I’m really meant to do here. And I see a lot of similarities between Siddhartha Gautama and even Christ even.

I mean, you look at Christ. I mean, his trajectory of having to go through that struggle, that pain for him to understand that love really is the answer to all your problems. And he taught love to the very end, even though he was getting whipped in a cross and tortured. He’s like, “Nope, love is the way. Love is the way. Love is the way.” And he was a very perfect representation of what love can do. So a lot of these ancient transcended masters had to go through these unbearable tortures just to be able to get the point across that there’s more to life than just this three-dimensional existence, which is temporary, right?

This existence is but a temporary microsecond in your life. You are the universe manifesting itself in three dimensions. You are a fragment of this totality. You are only experiencing but a very limited perspective of what’s really going on. We are so limited and so blind, yet we’re so fixated on this reality that we’re like, “Oh, I got to have money. I got to have” … Dude, have you actually taken the time to analyze this? You’re just but a tight knee done. You’re so fixated on this that you just need to detach, take a breath, see what’s really going on outside of you. Take a moment to tap deep within your subconscious mind and really understand what the messages are trying to tell you.

It’s okay for you not to be perfect at everything. Imperfection is a blessing because there’s always room to improve. Whenever you make a mistake, you can always make it better. And that’s … Humanity’s best blessing is to be imperfect.

Interviewer: I think that’s a great place to leave off. Do you have any final thoughts that you want to share for the recording or are you satisfied?

Cuauhtemoc: I would just like to say that we don’t really notice what we have in front of us until maybe pain comes into play. I mean, pain can be a very powerful teacher, but it doesn’t always have to be that way. We just simply need to listen to ourselves a little more.

What I mean by that is just go within, see if there are any trouble, maybe any damage that has been done in the past that we need to resolve, and just basically listen to our subconscious mind a little more. Tap into our inner selves and listen to the messages that are there. We do have a deeper purpose and it’s not just being greedy and it’s not just coming here and leeching the land. That’s not our purpose.

Our purpose is not to be some unhappy millionaire. I mean, there’s happy millionaires, don’t get me wrong, but the point is not to just come here and make a whole ton of money and just die. No, that’s not the real purpose. Our real purpose is to leave a legacy behind. That’s it.

Interviewer: Thank you. All right. With that, I’ll go ahead and stop the recording if that’s okay with you.

Cuauhtemoc: Yeah, that’s fine.